Growing with the GlobalWebflow Community

0:00Janne Parri: Okay, Francesco. So let's start with the first question. I'm curious how big Webflow is in Japan and is there like a good Webflow community around it in Japan?

0:11Francesco Castronuovo: Actually I think there's kind of a lack of awareness here in Japan. It's growing. Actually, friend Igor knows way more than me because he's doing business here in Japan for seven, eight years now. And he is the founder of SupaSaito. But anyway, my impression is that there's still kind of a lack of awareness. Lot of companies are still using platforms like WordPress to build their websites. But it's definitely growing. And this is what we are aiming at actually. We want to kind of raise the...

0:49Francesco Castronuovo: Awareness of Webflow as a platform here in Japan and yeah but there's still a long way to go I guess to be honest

0:59Janne Parri: Yeah, I believe it's the same back here in Finland and in many places. So WordPress is still a big thing, although there are other ways of doing websites. But how about the community? Have you had any Webflow meetups like in person?

1:17Francesco Castronuovo: We had one, but actually, yeah, even when talking about Webflow community here, it's not that big, to be honest, and this is something that, yeah, we want to... Focus on from now on actually. We are trying to understand how we can grow the community here as well. And actually to be honest, I think this is kind of similar to what is happening or the situation in Italy, the place where I come from, the country where I come from because...

1:52Francesco Castronuovo: There I think the situation is almost the same I mean a lot of companies are using wordpress or wix and I know it's really uncommon to talk to someone and hear that they know about webflow and it's yeah I think it's really uncommon

2:11Janne Parri: Yeah, yeah. But at least Japan and Tokyo has a lot of people, it's about that. In my little town, there's probably 10,000 people and I do not know anyone who uses Webflow.

2:28Francesco Castronuovo: Yeah, I mean here in Tokyo there's a lot of space to grow and more and more companies are coming to us especially and this is probably interesting to migrate their website from WordPress to Webflow which means that anyway things are changing so again there's still a long way to go but yeah things are moving forward at least so we're... Making sort of impact or this is my or our hope actually but yeah we're doing

2:59Janne Parri: Yeah, that is good. That is good. Okay, before we go any further, believe introductions are in order. So my name is Janne Parri and I'm a web designer from Finland and I will be your host today. And my guest today is Francesco Castronuovo. You might know him from his in-depth YouTube tutorials, of course, around Webflow or as a mentor in Flux Academy. Nowadays he is in Japan working as a Chief Product Officer for SupaSaito. So tell me Francesco, how does one go from a physics major in Italy to a Chief Product Officer in Japan?

3:48Francesco Castronuovo: Yeah, actually if I think about it, I don't know probably I think that I've been kind of lucky on one hand and on the other I tried to kind of adapt to change because my life kind of changed a lot to be honest. When I started studying physics at university I really wanted to become a kind of researcher or kind of a sort of scientist. I actually don't clearly remember but I mean I'm quite curious as a person and that's probably why I decided to start studying physics at university.

4:26Francesco Castronuovo: But then I don't know I realized that probably I didn't really fit I mean for that role and I don't know and then actually I really wanted to... Kind of have a family to be honest because while I was approaching the end of university I had this kind of situation and I was really thinking about having a family and didn't want to jump from one university to another, from one country to another and I really wanted kind of stability, kind of. But then that's why after I graduated I kind of quit this...

5:13Francesco Castronuovo: Give up on this idea of becoming a researcher and I started looking for a job in a company actually, I incorporate kind of job. But again, things changed and so I had to kind of adapt to this new situation and so I had to kind of abandon the idea of having a family and yeah, and then I think I was lucky because while I was attending the gym, very close to the place I was, the company I was working for, I had the chance to kind of meet a couple of persons that became close friends at that time. And they were doing their, they were freelancing basically. One in...

6:06Francesco Castronuovo: The web marketing, yeah, was a web marketer and the other one was a financial consultant. And yeah, I started kind of talking with them and that's how I kind of get close to this idea of becoming, quitting kind of my corporate job and starting a career as a freelancer. I mean, at the time I didn't know anything about web development or webflow or whatever.

6:39Francesco Castronuovo: I mean, I just tried to kind of create a chance to do something different because yeah, were kind of, I was working out with this two guys one day and they were talking about, I don't know, making a new website for one of them and they didn't know who to ask to, how to do that. And so I just jumped kind of in this, to this conversation and I said, oh, okay, if you want, I can do that. They asked me, but do you know anything about building websites? And I say nothing. No, nothing, really nothing. Because I mean, I was working as a developer, kind of UI developer, but it was not, I mean, it was...

7:30Francesco Castronuovo: On for a kind of industry, I think they were building kind of machines for the pharma, I don't know how to pronounce it actually, but anyway, something that was completely different from the web development. And so I was using C sharp or C plus as languages to build my interfaces. So no JavaScript, no CSS. I didn't even know what HTML was actually at the time, to be honest.

8:01Francesco Castronuovo: Talking about, I guess, five or six years ago. It was 2019, guess. 2019, 2020, or something like that. And yeah, but I said, OK, I don't know anything, but I can learn. And that's how I kind of got it. So I built this very first website for free, of course, because I didn't know anything. And actually, used a WordPress for that. And then while I was kind of studying about web design and web development, probably I came across on YouTube, I came across some of

8:38Francesco Castronuovo: Some of Ran Segall's on YouTube, tutorials on web design mainly, and that's probably how I came across Webflow the very first time. To be honest, I don't clearly remember, but I think it was thanks to one of Ran Segall's videos about web design and web development. Yeah, I was really fascinated by that platform. And yeah, I started learning about that and became actually a Flux Academy student. And I think it was in late 2020. And yeah, because I was really kind of unhappy with my corporate job and I didn't really know where I was going with that experience. And so, yeah, I kind of...

9:29Francesco Castronuovo: Almost abruptly I would say decided to wait even if I didn't have any network so any clients so any basically I had no experience at that time I just had the chance to get one single client because an acquaintance of mine at that time was building websites with WordPress and didn't really have the time for a new client that was coming in. And so he just asked me if I could take on that project. Said, okay, let's try. And that was my very first client because yeah, the website I built for my friend, okay, that was kind of an experiment.

10:18Francesco Castronuovo: It was a good experience, especially to grow, but that was my very first client and I took care of both design and development. It took a lot of time actually because she didn't know anything, especially about design. I have to say that I'm just a developer. I don't have any design sensibility. And I don't even like designing that much, to be honest. So yeah, at the time, especially at that time, I really struggled coming up with a design that was good enough for the client. But yeah, it took a few months to close the project, and it was a small one, to be honest, a few pages. Yeah, we did it anyway. And that, again, was my good reference.

11:14Janne Parri: Yeah, the first projects are quite hard and quite long, even though they are like small sites. But if I understood correctly, that was for WordPress projects. How about your first paid Webflow projects? Do you remember that one?

11:34Francesco Castronuovo: Yeah, actually that one was also my very first Webflow project. Yeah, because yeah, I started probably because I said I became a Flux Academy student in late 2020, but actually I only started learning on their platform, their Academy only in early 2021 after. Because I kind of quit my corporate job in January at the end of January 2021. So after I quit the job, then I had kind of time to invest and study more. Until then it was just, I don't know, a couple of hours per week, only when I had time, especially during the weekends maybe. But then after quitting the job, I really had a lot of time to invest also because I,

12:25Francesco Castronuovo: I really wanted to get out of

12:25Janne Parri: Yeah. Yeah, that is a hard situation. When you kind of want to learn new stuff, but you have a full-time job. So when do you get the time to learn? And then if you just quit the job, you kind of are in the hurry to get the first client, first paying client to, actually get some money in. So, yeah, but I have heard you're not the, like the only one who just

12:54Janne Parri: Jump straight to the freelancing and you had the first client at least that's more than like zero

13:03Francesco Castronuovo: Basically, right before quitting my corporate job, I got this client from this acquaintance of mine. And that was probably, I don't know, the push that I needed to then kind of decide once and for all to quit the job. Because I was thinking about that. But as I said, in the end, it was kind of an abrupt decision because yeah, I was thinking about that. Then, okay, but what am I going to do after that? I didn't really have any clue, to be honest. I was a bit kind of lost. So probably again, that for very first client was the push that I needed. And so I took that chance and quit my job and started with this project. And in the meantime, I also got another very small project was one page website from...

13:52Francesco Castronuovo: Another friend of mine and that was my second Webflow project. And in the meantime, because I really wanted to grow a network and kind of help make new clients, because again, I started studying kind of on Flux Academy's platform or yeah, I watching, I guess at that time it was Webflow Masterclass 2 maybe, the second version, yes, don't remember, but anyway. I started investing a lot of time on their community. I was helping students like me that were struggling with the platform because I realized quite soon that, I mean, I don't want to say that it was easy for me to learn the platform because it was not and I really don't think I'm a smart guy to be honest, but probably because I had a sort of, yeah.

14:47Francesco Castronuovo: Kind of a physics background or any way I already knew how to code a little bit. It was probably a bit easier for me to kind of digest those concepts. Mean, CSS, JavaScript and HTML. And so I guess at least two or three hours a day, I was investing on the community, helping other students. And that's how I probably get my... Very first clients I think, I don't remember. For sure, I got this collaboration thanks to Flux Academy with one of the mentors at that time, which is a close friend of mine and I'm actually really grateful to him because he gave me the chance to grow, to kind

15:43Francesco Castronuovo: Build not just simple, I mean also complex websites with Webflow. He kind of trusted me even if I barely had any experience with building websites with Webflow. I think he was just kind of interested because he saw that I was helping other students so probably I had a good kind of... Knowledge of the platform overall, but yeah, so even if I didn't have any experience, he just asked me to help him with a few projects and this is how things kind of really got started.

16:23Janne Parri: Yeah, that is, that is beautiful. And, it goes to say that one should like invest in a community and help others. And that way one can actually get some like real clients. And the trust part is of course quite important than when you like help people tend to trust you, even though if they know that you're not so experienced, they know that you are willing to learn and willing to check things out if you don't know how to do some parts of the project. And yeah, the Flux Academy, I believe I did the same, or the course, the workflow masterclass around the same time, but I was more like a passive student in that manner that I didn't engage with the community, which is, to be honest,

17:19Janne Parri: When I see you on the communities like the Flux and on YouTube, I'm always like, I should comment more, I should help people more and so on and so forth. But are you still like an active mentor in Flux Academy and how is your relationship to that community right now?

17:45Francesco Castronuovo: Yeah, actually I'm still working with them as a mentor for their Webflow Masterclass and I'm also helping them with websites from time. I maybe, I don't know, developing something new. I was kind of the one developing their current websites. Not the one designing it, because I don't know how to design it, but I was just the one developing the website. And so yeah, I'm still working with them and it's been great to be honest. It's been three years, I think, now. Yeah, because I think I started in August 2022 and it was and I mean, Black's Academy, I will also forever be grateful to Black's Academy as well because they also gave me this opportunity to join basically just because I was helping their students and I was doing that for free and they started needing someone else to help them with Webflow and they just asked me

18:41Francesco Castronuovo: Just because they already knew me because I had been helping their students for one year and a half I guess and so after that time yeah, yeah, because I think it was from again early 2021 from mid 2022 and then in August 2022 I joined Flex Academy actually first probably to help them with their website and then after a couple of months I also joined them as a mentor for the Webflow Masterclass and to be honest, they're great. Mean, the team is great and is made of amazing people, be honest. Very great designers, developers, and also learned a lot from them. And again, I will always be grateful to Flux Academy to run because they really, really helped me kind of grow in this environment. They also trusted me and I really learned a lot from them.

19:42Janne Parri: Yeah, yeah. That is a beautiful community. And every now and then someone asks me that why don't I make a Webflow course? And I always answer that there is a perfect course already. So I cannot compete with that. So I just point to the Flux courses. And yeah, I believe it's just released the fifth.

19:42Francesco Castronuovo: So.

20:10Janne Parri: Iteration of Webflow Masterclass and I checked out the curriculum and it seems quite awesome.

20:17Francesco Castronuovo: Yeah, it's a huge chorus.

20:22Janne Parri: Yeah, yeah, but there is huge like shifts and do new things like back in when we first took the course, like frameworks were a lot smaller things. Now they are quite like crucial part. And actually I mentioned in the last episode I recorded with a Corey Moen that I always struggle a bit when I'm teaching. Webflow because when is the like right time to introduce the frameworks? You have to get the fundamentals first and then you can explain the framework so there is a lot and that's just one like thing to take into consideration when building a course so kudos the flux for making such a good course yeah

21:21Janne Parri: About the community, well no, let's save that for later. We were just at the Flux Academy part of your career. How about this shift to Japan? Where did it come from? Did you just always know that you wanna move somewhere, and especially Japan? And how did you get to SupaSaito?

21:47Francesco Castronuovo: That's a good question actually. A few months after I quit my job, actually, because I realized I didn't have any clients and so I also was not getting any money from my company, of course, from the previous company. So I decided to... Because I was living in the northern part of Italy, alone in this apartment close to the place I was working.

22:18Francesco Castronuovo: At and yeah basically decided to go make a kind of step back a little bit and so yeah i went back to the south and i lived with my family for a year and a half just to so that I could focus. Mean, of course, save a bit of money while I was growing my business or trying to grow my business and also had the right environment to really focus on that thing.

22:48Francesco Castronuovo: Family around so it was yeah kind of a good environment to then somehow not relax but I mean a warm environment to grow the good environment to grow probably and again yeah but when I when things started growing or going better a little bit after I joined Max Academy and also after getting yeah several clients, especially because I was posting quite a lot at that time on LinkedIn as well and I also got the certification as Webflow expert certification, so I was also getting a few clients from there. What else? Actually, in the meantime, I also started working with the Webflow sales team because, this is kind of...

23:41Francesco Castronuovo: Interesting probably because I mean probably shows that if you really want to create a chance to change your life for the better you can do that and you also have to challenge yourself to new things because I mean I was still thinking on how to grow my business and it was I think late 2021 right after I moved back to my hometown and I got this occasion to... Saw this... I think it was probably on Webflow's website or something like that. The first Webflow build challenge that they were...... to host in Webflow conference. And so I applied to that. And so I sent my kind of project. And yeah, they liked it and they said, okay, you can...

24:38Francesco Castronuovo: Participate and that's how I came in contact with them and after that we just I mean I was I didn't win I was actually I lost at the very first round but anyway because of that because I came in contact with them thanks to this challenge after the conference a few weeks later they reached out to me asking if I wanted to collaborate with their sales team and basically working with them to recreate maybe the homepage for potential clients. Think they kind of present their...

25:17Francesco Castronuovo: They present their platform to potential clients by rebuilding maybe one page of their website in Webflow and they show how the platform is powerful and you can do things very quickly, things like that. Anyway, I started also working with them and got this collaboration, which is still going on nowadays. After my business was growing little by little, I started thinking that probably I should do... Was the time to make another step forward. And so I started thinking where I could go and I had no idea, to be honest. I mean, I had a few places, countries in mind, but...

26:00Francesco Castronuovo: So the reason why I picked Japan at the very end was because I was already studying a little bit of Japanese and I mean I had always been fascinated by Japanese culture, Japanese language and I also wanted to make an experience abroad in a country that was completely different from Italy. That's why then I picked Japan as my destination and also yeah...

26:30Francesco Castronuovo: When I came here anyway, even if I was fascinated again by the culture, I didn't really have any expectations. I knew that this country was completely different from Italy and you can watch whatever you want on YouTube or read any book you like about Japan. When you come here and you go to a new country and you try to live there, everything is completely different from what you can get from. From YouTube or from Woot or whatever. So yeah, again, because I didn't really have any specific expectations then I said, okay, yeah, let's see how it goes. So I didn't even really have any kind of cultural shock because I just decided that I would embrace or accept anything kind of about this new culture. And yeah, so that's how. And...

27:23Francesco Castronuovo: While I was still deciding about the other place to go, to move to, I also had the chance to talk a lot with another very, very important person in this journey. And she's called Sandra, if I can mention her, Sandra Nangoro. And she really helped me because, helped me to pick a decision, to decide to... Kind of overcome my fears, mainly. And...

27:58Francesco Castronuovo: She also suggested me to reach out to people after I picked after picking Japan. She also suggested me to try to reach out to people doing business in Japan, same business as mine. And that's how I came in contact with Igor, the founder of my very, very close friend, Igor in Japan and founder of SupaSaito. I reached out to him through LinkedIn and that's how we kind of. Yeah, we met the very first time online and after going to Japan as a student I had a student visa which is practically the only way you can stay here for a long time. Now they also have this kind of freelance visa or something like that. They give you six months but yeah, at the time I didn't even have that.

28:55Francesco Castronuovo: That choice kind of. So I could only try to get a student visa, so I enrolled in a school here, a Japanese school for foreigners. And we are with a student visa, you can stay here up to two years. And again, we are right after kind of moving to Japan, I actually met Igor. In person for the first time. And then, we slowly moved from there. Mean, we became friends, we started talking, maybe, yeah, were collaborating a little bit. And after, I guess, a bit more than a year, then he asked me to join SupaSaito as one of the business directors, basically. And that's how I managed to then change

29:47Francesco Castronuovo: My stages here and now I don't have the student visa anymore. Of course, I have this business visa that I've just got actually, probably less than two weeks ago, I think, after waiting for seven years. Yeah, that's whole other story. And yeah, and he is another person I will always be grateful to. Again, as I said at the very beginning, I think I've been very, very lucky because I met a lot of incredible people throughout my old

30:17Francesco Castronuovo: Journey. To be honest, again, I try to kind of create my own opportunities, of course, out of what was happening. But again, I think I've been very, very lucky. I will always kind of say this.

30:41Janne Parri: Yeah, yeah, totally. People are important. And I would say that you have been like, very active. So the more you do, the luckier you get in a way. And yeah, I'd love to ask. And I will ask you about the things you do at SupaSaito. So, but before that, like when you were growing your freelance business, did you all

31:13Janne Parri: You mentioned that you got some clients out of the flux academy the community, did you like straight out of the gate get like international clients or whether more like local clients from italy or what was the mix and yeah

31:32Francesco Castronuovo: I got a few clients from Italy but probably they were coming from mostly from LinkedIn if I remember correctly from Flux Academy they were all international kind of clients and again yeah the first projects that I got thanks to this guy that was a mentor at Flux, Ethan and he's Spanish and yeah he also at that time yeah now he's doing great with his business he's also a great guy. And again, he was really important for me at the time, especially. But anyway, at the time he was also working with a lot of international clients. So probably I had only two, I don't know, three or four clients from Italy since I started my career. And then mainly people from US, but not only, maybe other...

32:31Francesco Castronuovo: Country in Europe. Yeah, so kind of over the world.

32:34Janne Parri: Yeah, yeah, that is beautiful. And of course you were like part of this English speaking community straight out of the box. At the start, this is a bit of a selfish question because I have more like local clients and now I'm trying to make content and be more active in the English speaking community and maybe get some like more international clients. I have had

33:08Janne Parri: One or two but they have come from mainly my Finnish context and contacts through my Finnish contacts. So So yeah, that's a thing for me. But do you have any advice for me or people who try to break into the more global community or market?

33:28Francesco Castronuovo: So to be honest, think that probably the most important thing is consistency, I would say. Mean, so let's say publishing posts on LinkedIn. Actually, I don't know. Actually, for me, doesn't really work that well. Yeah, LinkedIn, for example, or even the training community as Flux Academy, for example, I think that... Really helpful because you can come in contact with a lot of people and maybe grow some interesting and long-lasting collaborations from this places. I don't know what content to when it comes to deciding what content to post, I mean probably based on my experience if you set yourself as a kind of instructor or...

34:26Francesco Castronuovo: Person that wants to share his experience to teach people how to use Webflow in my case, probably it doesn't really work for getting clients. And actually right now that's not the reason why I'm doing it. Because I want first to focus on, I'm trying to focus on building a sort of network, solid network. Around Webflow and also I'm really really interested in sharing what I know with other people. So yeah, I cannot really say that I'm doing that mainly for getting clients and of course people got interested in my work because they can see my posts about videos I publish on YouTube. Of course I'd be very very happy to bring this new project into SuperSido but anyway yeah we're doing...

35:21Francesco Castronuovo: Well so mainly right now because I'm kind of responsible for the... The online academy of SupaSaito that is kind of right now mainly focusing on Japanese speaking people. I want to grow this network of non-Japanese speaking people and first and again yeah I'm doing that for sharing my knowledge. So yeah back to the main topic what content to pick I would say just showcase what you can do. So I'm doing that not to teach other people but just to show

35:56Francesco Castronuovo: Case that you are a good developer, that you know your stuff and being consistent is I think is the key because yeah I mean there are a lot of people nowadays, of course, posting about Webflow, about their projects, how good they are, whatever. And so it's kind of hard to stand out. And that's why probably I think it's important to really take care of the process when it comes to planning the content or actually even creating the content to publish. Mean, really pay attention to...

36:33Francesco Castronuovo: I wouldn't say to details, but find something that really can make the difference. And show how you are different from other people. I think that's really important.

36:49Janne Parri: Yeah. I totally agree consistency is the key and you have been quite consistent. I actually bumped into one of your newer videos some time ago on YouTube and I saw you there and I was like, okay, cool. This is a good tutorial for Webflow and I should really subscribe to this guy and then I saw that I was already subscribed. And then I realized that I subscribed to your channel all the way back when you had long hair and beard. And I didn't remember you. So yeah, that was a funny realization. Yeah, this is the same guy with the whiteboard and stuff. So yeah, you have been consistent throughout the years.

37:19Francesco Castronuovo: Thank

37:50Janne Parri: I would say so any advice on the content creator creation side, how to be more consistent? Do you have like processes or things to keep on going year after year?

38:05Francesco Castronuovo: Okay. One thing I want to kind clarify, I wasn't really super consistent because I studied and this thing as well was thanks to Sandra, the person I mentioned a few minutes ago. And because yeah, that was kind of in gear, but I mean, I really wanted to open a channel on YouTube to share what what I knew about Webflow, what I was learning. Yeah, I was thinking maybe I cannot do too well or whatever. I was just procrastinating, I think, basically. But I decided then, finally decided to open this channel, less than two months before moving to Japan. That, yeah, it went kind of well for those two months. But then when I moved here,

39:02Francesco Castronuovo: I mean, I had to go to school, do homework, keep working to grow my business. And so I had to post actually that project. And it was a hard decision to be honest. I was constantly thinking about that. Yeah, I just realized that. And for a while, maybe I was posting, I don't know, a video once every month, but after, I guess, four or five months. Early lesson that I decided that I didn't really have the time to focus on that, especially if I wanted to create good content. But then after quitting school, and so it was late September last year, then I started thinking once again that probably that was the time to started thinking about that once again, especially because I was...

39:57Francesco Castronuovo: Igor and I were already talking about joining the company and so we started having this idea of growing a community of non-Japanese speaking people. I to myself, probably this is the time to go look back at that project and pick it up once again. Yeah, in December last year I started once again. To stay consistent, mean it's hard I have to say but if you can schedule things in advance and if you are not too strict with yourself I think it's not super difficult. Mean, of course if you're aiming at releasing two videos per week but that is not your main activity you also have to do other things.

40:55Francesco Castronuovo: I mean you're going to fail, I would say. Because you would feel... You would end up feeling overwhelmed. But if you start thinking, okay, I can publish one video per week or one video, I don't know, every 10 days, which is my current frequency, right now I think that it's more sustainable. And of course you also have to kind of... Take your time to grow your own process because at first and I'm still trying to optimize it actually to optimize it but at the very beginning I mean it's it really takes a lot of time to just you know prepare all the stuff especially when it comes for when it comes with recording and editing the video I mean for me especially it was really taking a lot of time

41:52Francesco Castronuovo: Managed to kind of optimize that part of the process but I think there's still a lot of room for improvement. And probably another suggestion would be to follow your Interests. Mean even when talking about webflow you can decide to talk about what has been released and try to go with the flow kind of but this is actually not what I'm doing and because I just don't like to talk about new releases or I don't know be there as soon as something new happens I just kind of I don't know

42:37Francesco Castronuovo: Create content about what I'm really interested in and maybe I got suggestions from students from Flux Academy students or maybe I pick one topic from my endless list of possible content for YouTube videos or maybe I come up with new ideas or maybe I see a website and I say okay maybe I can recreate or even a video on YouTube that is only maybe code and maybe yeah, say maybe I can try to recreate this effect in Webflow. Kind of mixing.

43:14Francesco Castronuovo: Code with no code stuff and maybe even making it kind of configurable thanks to attribute so that people don't really have to know code if they want to configure it. They just have to kind of go through a short kind of documentation instructions and then they can configure the effect as they want. Yeah so probably this is the this is what really matters to stay consistent. To wrap up, do what you really like to talk about, what you really like to talk about, what you're really interested in, and then be kind of realistic. So don't have plans that maybe you would end up feeling overwhelmed about.

44:00Janne Parri: Yeah. Yeah, totally. You cannot like start doing like two or three highly edited YouTube videos a week on top of your day job that is not like realistic, but maybe one a month, one in a week, like a simple video. And although it would be a simple screen share video, it too takes a lot of effort you have to plan and you have to edit. There's of course apps that might help you with that, but even with the latest apps, it takes some time. So yeah, that is that is a constant, like struggle for me. And I believe for quite many other people, there was something I wanted to ask about this, but yeah, your advice on

45:02Janne Parri: Like actually focusing on the things that you are interested in is a good thing, especially for the beginners, because if you just feel that it is not a, it's another to do item on your list that does not like bring up the inner motivation to do those things more. And it is not a, yeah, can go on.

45:26Francesco Castronuovo: I yeah, you don't have to do it because you have to do it. You do it because you want it. Otherwise, yeah, it wouldn't work, I think.

45:36Janne Parri: Yeah. But you have, you have like great documentations or like the cloneables for your current videos. Those are amazing. Of course it is always like the struggle, especially when you are starting the, well, the consistency and how many videos do you actually get to publish? And on the other side, how like good quality videos do you produce like those documentation and all the other stuff like ads to your quality clearly and you can just go through the cloneables and you understand a major part of how the things you have done are actually done so that is that is beautiful but yeah it is it is of course

46:36Janne Parri: Like a way or there is a path to get on that level and you might not be able to start from there because then even if you know and plan that kind of video you actually do not have the time to make it a reality so you might want to start with an easier one or would you agree?

46:57Francesco Castronuovo: Yeah, that's true. Think it's important to understand that you cannot create very good content from the beginning. Unless you're very talented. I think I'm not good at creating content because for me, I like doing these things, but I don't think I'm really good at talking in front of camera. And also, English is not my first language. So it's, kind of words don't really come easily, especially when you are trying to explain things while you are doing stuff on the screen. Of course, you, I mean, you have to prepare yourself before jumping in the project, but I mean, it's not as straightforward as having a conversation like the one we're having right now, or if you're talking to a friend in your own language.

47:54Francesco Castronuovo: And also for me, it's very important to explain things clearly. That's actually why recently I started kind of mixing or using actually Chats GPT for scripts. This thing might be interesting because usually why I build a project, I take notes about... All the things I want to say because otherwise I know that I'm gonna miss something.

48:26Francesco Castronuovo: And maybe something that I really want to share because I don't know, tiny little tip about some Webflow feature or whatever, something that for me maybe is really, important to share. Thus, I take notes and I also try to explain, but let's say in my own language, so in Italian, so I take notes while going through the project. And then I ask ChatGPT to help me come up with a script in English that's clear enough for other people to understand and a lot of time actually I argue with yeah because I mean I find I found out that right now then I don't know probably things will get better soon but

49:01Janne Parri: You

49:14Francesco Castronuovo: It's not that good at kind of analyzing a huge bunch of kind of text and so the very first the very first times I was kind of writing this huge kind of text or wall of text all my all my notes for the videos and I realized that it was missing a lot of important stuff and so I started kind of testing different approaches and I realized that and it's also helpful for me as well. Mean, coming up dividing the entire video in chunks.

49:58Francesco Castronuovo: In sections, different sections and then take notes for the first section and then come up with a script for that first part of the video. Then you go to the second part, the third part and by doing that, ChatGPT is really able to kind of elaborate all your notes and coming up with a script that works. So yeah, sometimes anyway I have to kind of write something myself because yeah, I realized that... Maybe there's still something missing or I know, I really don't like how things are kind of phrased. But overall, it's great because, I mean, a lot of times maybe you know that there's something really important you want to explain and that concept is clear in your mind. But...

50:48Francesco Castronuovo: It's because you have to explain it in English or maybe you wouldn't even be able to do it in your own language, whatever. But you cannot find the right word. You try, but you realize that your words don't really make much sense, especially for people that don't know much about the platform. And ChatGPT is very good at doing that. You explain in your own words and 99 % of time it comes up with an explanation that is super good.

51:18Janne Parri: Yeah. Yeah. And I would say that is a good practice for even like the native speakers, because you have to like think it through and ChatGPT can help you with the structure and just explaining the things in a understandable manner. So that is a good, and I think that you also like focus on the right stuff. You mentioned that you don't feel like you are the best content creation creator.

51:25Francesco Castronuovo: I love you.

51:49Janne Parri: But if you and I are doing content about, let's say, Webflow, we do not have to be like those cinema, graphers, what is the term? We do not have to have fancy transitions and stuff. The content, the actual info is the key and everything else just has to be good enough. You have your... Good enough camera, you have your good enough audio, but we do not have to be the best at those things. Yeah, the content stuff is ongoing battle and it is interesting to see where it goes with all the AI stuff and so on. But hey, I promised to ask you about your things at SupaSaito.

52:44Janne Parri: You mentioned that you have a like a Academy for Japanese Webflow users, was it?

52:55Francesco Castronuovo: Yeah, mainly Webflow users. Actually, main target right now is our own clients are our main clients right now. So we basically create content that then our clients can use to kind of... Employees internally and so were trying to give them all the instruments they need. I mean we are not just providing them with a new website, we also teach them how to maintain their website. Yeah, most of our content is about Webflow but let's say we also have content about a platform that actually no one knows in Europe or US but is well known here in Japan because the internet

53:44Francesco Castronuovo: Interfaces in Japanese and it's called Studio and or we have content actually about Notion or about Make and we're trying to we're actually working on a course on Google Analytics but let's say right now yeah our main focus is Japanese speaking people but yeah our clients that they can train internally. And use our content here to maintain their websites. But yeah, we're kind of thinking of how we can also grow our audience outside of Japan. We're kind of in the process.

54:19Janne Parri: Yeah, yeah. And your title was Chief Product Officer, so it's the Academy, the product you're like managing. Yeah.

54:30Francesco Castronuovo: Yeah, for the academy and in general for content creation. Yeah, again, were a small team, but made of very, very talented people. I think that, yeah, apart from that, even the relationship that we can build with the people you're working with, mean, it might sound trivial, but I realized that it's very important, especially let's say when you can get inspired by the people you have around. And that's something that I think is very, very important, being surrounded by the right people that can inspire you, people you can talk to, not only about work, but also about life. Mean, people that kind of share the same vision and that, in my case, that really want to grow.

55:27Francesco Castronuovo: I mean, not just as business person, but also as human. And yeah, I think this is very, very important. Again, I've been realizing this thing for years now, since I started this journey. I realized that being surrounded by the right people is kind of, yeah.

55:51Janne Parri: Yeah, yeah, and that is a challenge for like, for like people like me, I believe at your like career at some point, we as a, as a like remote freelancers, if you just work alone, well, you have kind of all this like internet communities, but you really have to be active to get like the feedback and the community out of. Out of those communities, if you know what I mean. Any insight, any advice for the remote freelancers, how to get that team feeling for their life and work.

56:34Francesco Castronuovo: Because we have kind of calls twice a week and of course I mean, I... Yeah... Me and Igor were living here in Tokyo and also his brother Sergey and we meet at least once a week and again they're very very important for me and they help me a lot and I've been inspired by them a lot and that's how especially in this last few months

57:05Francesco Castronuovo: I realized that it's again super important to have the right people around. Because you can be, I mean, you can even have big dreams or willing, you might be willing to do great stuff. But if you're surrounded by people that don't share that vision and maybe they think that you're dreaming too much, you would end up kind of... Adhere to or accept that vision and you would end up being influenced a lot, I think.

57:45Janne Parri: Yeah, it's the five person closest to you influence thing. The idea that you become the people that you are like the people that you are closest to. It's in a way this small town syndrome. But of course, internet is good to get you out of that. Can find find like-minded people who motivate you and you can do cool stuff with them. So yeah, go on.

58:23Francesco Castronuovo: So you're living in a small country, you said, a city.

58:30Janne Parri: Yeah, City and country, Finland is not, we have in Finland there's 5 million people. I'm totally Tokyo probably has more people. And no, it's 5.5, I believe. And yeah, in my town there is like probably 10 or 20,000. I should really look that up, but not a lot. And I visit the capital, Helsinki.

58:57Janne Parri: Regularly there's about million people. But yeah, that and the Webflow circles are not that big. There are a couple of like Webflow partners besides me and we have tried to have one Webflow meetup in Helsinki. There was not a lot of people showing up. So maybe we will try again at some point. But yeah, that's partly why I'm trying to be more active in this online community and meet cool people like you. So yeah. One thing still about SuperSido, I believe, did I read correctly that you guys specialize in migrating from WordPress to Webflow?

59:58Janne Parri: Yeah, I have done a couple of that kind of projects. Of course, the more complex the side, the more complex the migration. But for people who haven't done those, are the key challenges you bump into in a project like that?

1:00:19Francesco Castronuovo: Actually, this one, if you want, could be a good question for Igor, because I am the one responsible for Academy. So, I mean, we talk also about that, but I'm actually not an expert of migration. And I know that he kind of struggles a lot with CMS migration. I mean, because he always says that... I mean, you're reading the CMS from WordPress, especially when you have to migrate blog content. It's not super easy. You have to do a lot of things manually, especially when you copy paste content from, let's say, a rich text blog field from... Yeah, that's probably... Okay.

1:01:03Janne Parri: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's- That's my experience too. And I believe quite a few webflow people are not happy to do that. If you, if you like get to a point that you have done a couple of those that might be like quite profitable niche in a way. And I believe there is a much like demand for that. But yeah.

1:01:28Francesco Castronuovo: Yeah, especially if you're with an understanding of the process. And actually, if you have your own process, like he has actually, he also came up with this way of building websites by using Webflow slots a lot and components. Yeah, it's a very cool way of building websites. And now that Webflow allows you to connect also CMS content with components.

1:02:00Francesco Castronuovo: Now he's really happy because he can do everything he wants basically.

1:02:07Janne Parri: Yeah, there has been some minor small little updates, but very, very like helpful updates. Did you see the latest one with the functions in variables just dropped out? Yeah.

1:02:21Francesco Castronuovo: Yeah, I really really like this. Because, I mean, I think they really, they're really focusing now way more than in... Past, think, on kind of building a product that kind of their product users can really be proud of, I think. And they are improving a lot. And honestly, I don't think they really have any kind of real competitor, to be honest. Because maybe two, three years ago, okay, if kind of you...

1:02:58Francesco Castronuovo: I mean, it was more probably similar to what now Framer or Figma are, but now, I mean, they're growing at a very fast pace and they're moving towards enterprise clients and they are also kind of releasing cool features. Now that they also kind of, now last year, they also acquired E-Sub. I mean, they are kind of... I think on another level, mainly because they are targeting different kind of clients or users.

1:03:29Janne Parri: Yeah, yeah, I agree totally. And I talked with about this with Corey Moen. Yeah. Webflow is getting more technical in a way more serious, for the like bigger clients that have more complex technical needs. And in the past, they were maybe targeting more like designers and people who want to like build their own designs. But nowadays it's. More and more like almost a like developer tool that you have you have like all the features for scaling and all the other platforms like framers and such they are aiming for the people who wanna like build their site fast and easy but workflow is for those who wanna kind of almost code or make it make it like write make it technically at

1:04:27Janne Parri: As advanced as it can be. So yeah, it's an interesting shift that we have going on. And of course it like affects us as like service providers. We still wanna like sell our services to like small companies or do we grow with the platform? So. Have you had like evolution in your clients? Do you see the shift towards more like bigger or serious? Serious is not the right word. Small companies are too, are serious too. But yeah, have you seen the shift?

1:05:12Francesco Castronuovo: To be honest, not really. Mean, yeah, at SupaSaito we always work with... Enterprise partners, clients, so big companies. Anyway, speaking of my career as a freelancer, I didn't really see any particular shift. Because anyway, if you know the platform enough, well enough, you can build websites for any type of clients.

1:05:45Francesco Castronuovo: Even with Webflow. So maybe, I don't know, for small businesses, would be maybe easier to build with Framer or Figma or Figma Sites. But if you already know Webflow and you've been using it for years, anyway, think, mean, in my personal opinion, you don't really have to shift to another platform to build websites even for small businesses. I think so.

1:06:10Janne Parri: Yeah, I would, I would agree, but there is like this like group of people who just wanna build fast and easy and webflow is not enough for those. But if you are like pro and you have a, even a small company that you know, that is going to grow and they wanna proper website, webflow is still good for, good for that. Definitely. But.

1:06:26Francesco Castronuovo: That's true.

1:06:42Janne Parri: Then again, maybe all the AI features will replace some templates and be a solution for some of those small companies that wanna build their first site by themselves, definitely. And maybe when they grow, they migrate to Webflow, hopefully, maybe. Would you agree?

1:07:07Francesco Castronuovo: That's yeah, especially if you are a small business and maybe you don't really care about website optimization. For example, I don't know, you don't really care much about SEO or whatever. So you can just be happy with what you can come up with. Framer and Figma Sites. I mean, I don't know much about those tools, but anyway, mean, with Webflow, can really optimize things a lot. And I think you can do a great job, of course, with both Figma Sites and Framer, but anyway, yeah, again, if you're not really interested in optimizing your website as much as possible in terms of performance and SEO, and you want to ship fast, that goes...

1:07:54Janne Parri: Yeah, yeah. Totally, yeah, go on.

1:08:00Francesco Castronuovo: Especially if you want to build a website for your own business. Because you can just design basically your website and then you can ship it. You don't really have to have a good understanding of just as HTML and workflows, learning curve is we see.

1:08:18Janne Parri: Yeah, it is deep and yeah, about the Figma sites, it's of course quite new and well, you can like edit the tags, put in the H1 elements or all the H elements and so on, but out of the box, it needs, it is still in beta and I believe it has a future, but it is not.

1:08:45Francesco Castronuovo: I did too.

1:08:46Janne Parri: There we go, let's say that.

1:08:49Francesco Castronuovo: But did you get the chance to test either a Figma or Psy?

1:08:53Janne Parri: Yeah, I did a quick test and looked at the code and it was quite interesting. It was like very bloated, even deeper than websites, Webflow sites where the Client-First, every little element was in a div which had automatically.

1:09:03Francesco Castronuovo: Ready?

1:09:19Janne Parri: Generated class. Of course, that is probably the only way you can do a platform like that. Well, not maybe but anyway, so it was quite loaded the code and I believe people are saying the same thing but time will tell will it like will it like develop? But framer has a better standing I would say and

1:09:40Francesco Castronuovo: That's this.

1:09:50Janne Parri: It is more optimized. I believe I haven't tried it in bit. Yeah, this brings mind one detailed, noted question. If you build your own personal Webflow project, or if you started a new Webflow project today, what would be your framework of choice from the Webflow frameworks?

1:10:18Francesco Castronuovo: Actually, I don't have any.

1:10:20Janne Parri: So, okay, do you probably have some sort of own system, your own starter template?

1:10:25Francesco Castronuovo: Exactly, and even at SupaSaito, mean, we have our own way of building websites and we don't really use any of the frameworks out there. I mean, honestly, I don't really like them. I think they can help you, but I mean, you also have to really understand the kind of limitations or scope of work. Otherwise, you would end up being limited a lot by them, especially if you want to stick to them without a lot for any flexibility because anyway if you're especially if you're building websites that are very that have very complex design I mean for SupaSaito is a bit different because anyway enterprise clients don't want their website to not to look amazing in terms of animations or

1:11:19Francesco Castronuovo: Design, whatever, their website has to be useful, has to tell the right information to their clients and yeah, in the right way. So, and be optimized, of course. But anyway, I mean, if you can come up with your own way, no matter the kind of projects you're working for or the kind of clients you're working with. I think that it's okay to use your own way and I don't know, sometimes I think that using frameworks is a sort of fashion, I don't know. If that works for you, that's totally fine. If it helps you speed up the process and you're happy with that, of course it's okay. But you don't have to...

1:11:59Janne Parri: Yeah, a trend,

1:12:12Francesco Castronuovo: I mean, no matter what, pick a framework and stick with that and use that for your own, for all your Webflow projects.

1:12:18Janne Parri: Yeah, yeah, totally. Is frameworks are not like an easy fix. You and even if you don't use them, which is totally okay, you have to have your own system. So you have to figure out the logic, how you're like building. Otherwise, of course, every project will be a mess. And when you come back to edit them, you are like not getting how you build it in the first place. So yeah, that is interesting. I'm totally using frameworks and fascinated about those, about the different frameworks. But I totally get the idea that you really have to know the framework. And when you do like custom stuff in those frameworks, you might have to do them in a different way. And that kind of like...

1:13:16Janne Parri: Takes apart the idea of the actual framework. Although probably that is a good way to go. If you have very custom stuff, you can just make an exception. But yeah, well, then there's of course the team aspect. So if there is a lot of people editing the site, it would be beneficial to have some sort of like rules for the edits. Yeah, do you have any comments on like team building or editing the site?

1:13:59Francesco Castronuovo: Not really, at least recently, but I worked on projects that were started by different developers. A lot of times it's just such a mess that you even know. You really want to start everything from scratch, to be honest. Especially, maybe I just didn't work with the right kind of... Team. I'm talking about maybe collaborations that I took the very first few months or the first year of my

1:14:37Francesco Castronuovo: As a freelancer and yeah, I don't know, the projects where the internal design started, but maybe then they didn't have time to complete the project and publish the website. So yeah, they were reaching out to different workflow developers to complete the projects. I mean, a lot of times you just come up with this... Very badly developed. I mean, I'm not even talking about using a framework or another. Mean, just structuring things properly, naming classes correctly with sort of meaning. So I really have a good experience.

1:15:29Janne Parri: Yeah, yeah. That is the, with great power comes great responsibility. Like we can do all sorts of things in the Webflow, but that is the blessing and a curse that you really have to know what you're building or think through what you are building. And I definitely have seen those same kind of projects that need to get finished. And for some reason, the person who started is not on the projects anymore. Yeah, there was some other points about the frameworks. Yeah, I mentioned this on the last episode, but just there are some very clever things in those frameworks like the Lumos and Mast. And just by going through the documentation, I learned a bunch. I might not.

1:16:26Janne Parri: I might not like actually use them, use the frameworks themselves, but I learned a bunch and I might like find a strategy or tactic that I would use in my, let's say my own like, projects or, my own framework if I was to build something like that. So yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Let's see, my kind of like checklist has been gone through. But I'm curious again about the community part. I mentioned that we could go back to that. How do you see your engagement with the Webflow community from this point forward? Are you

1:17:25Janne Parri: Doing in the future and do you have like goals for the community? You mentioned that you want to build a community in Japan, if I remember correctly. So yeah, what about that?

1:17:39Francesco Castronuovo: Actually, my kind of plans for the future would be keep growing this Webflow audience and keep sharing my knowledge and actually find a way and we're already working on that in SupaSaito to kind of publish more and more content to be more and more helpful to other people, to the entire community because... Anyway, and it's a bit frustrating for me. You want to share a lot of things, but I mean, it takes time to just publish a single video on YouTube. Or maybe you have, and this is my current situation, maybe you have a list of more than 400 topics for new content. But I mean, you only have time to publish one video every 10 days. I mean, no matter.

1:18:39Francesco Castronuovo: How much you're going to live, it would take forever. Anyway, you would never go through that list entirely. I mean, we also have a lot of knowledge to share. Mean, not just of course, not talking actually about me, but all the other team members. But again, yeah, working on new courses. Is I mean take time if you want to good quality if you want to produce good quality good quality courses so again our plans for the future yeah are revolving around

1:19:15Francesco Castronuovo: A creating a, we spoke about frameworks, creating this a framework that can work for building content, good quality content, but let's say fast and so that we can help more and more people and we can share more and more of. So I will definitely keep, let's say, anyway, publishing on, especially on LinkedIn and on YouTube. And of course I will keep helping students at Flux because that part really helps you understand what people are really struggling with. Because when you get used to a tool, and I'm not necessarily talking about being good at something, you just, I mean, you've been using that tool for years now and you,

1:20:06Francesco Castronuovo: You now kind of know, have your own process, have your own understanding of the tool and you miss a lot of things that kind of new people approaching the platforms are really struggling with. So keep talking with them really helps you kind of maintain the focus on those struggles kind of and use them to kind of how you say, to shape your content in a way that can really be helpful to those people. And yeah, this is kind of my, and my plan for.

1:20:48Francesco Castronuovo: For the next future. Again, at SupaSaito, we're really kind of trying to understand how we can provide more and more value to the entire community. And yeah, another, but we actually, we talked a little bit about that, but it would be great, let's say, to host a huge event, Webflow event here in Tokyo. So we really would like to grow the community here to get to a point where kind of we could really get sponsored or anyway actually convinced kind of Webflow to host an important event here. Mean having Webflow come here with Webflow, of course, we should just... Yeah, but now that they decided to, I don't know, to let's say this year they are holding the conference only in new York, right? I don't remember.

1:21:42Janne Parri: Yeah, that would be awesome. I don't remember either. Is it new York, Los Angeles, San Francisco? Anyway, in the States.

1:21:52Francesco Castronuovo: Yeah, just one location anyway. So that would be more difficult. But anyway, yeah, this is kind of our dream.

1:22:01Janne Parri: Yeah, yeah. I was pumped about that news because I haven't actually visited the Webflow Conf. My friend Felix has. Felix means if you happen to know him, he's also in Finland. And we have had this like plan that we might go to the London event. Last year it was like, it was not free the event itself. So we decided not to go.

1:22:32Janne Parri: And this year there is not a London event. So that's a bit of a bummer, but I would like to see like more, even those smaller events, would, there is something like something in when you see like people face to face and in the like real life. Of course, internet is awesome. It we can have a discussion like we do right now, which would not be possible. Maybe at least it wasn't wouldn't be as easy as it is right now. But I'd like to see more in person events too. If I would say that Tokyo events like a major event would seem to be like a

1:23:31Janne Parri: No, brainer. Would be a good place to have because of course it's a huge country. And if workflow wants to, wants to have a presence in the Eastern side of the world, that would definitely be a good move. But yeah, I actually might have asked this before, but do you have like those just workflow meetups? Like, more relaxed small meetups back there and are you planning to do those?

1:24:05Francesco Castronuovo: We really want to start planning those events. We had just one as I mentioned. But yeah, we really want to kind of grow. The awareness of the platform here and also have this small meetups. It would be great because anyway, as you said, you can know and get to know more people in person because I mean, yeah, with our job is very, very easy to meet person online. And I'm really glad because as you said, now we're having this very cool conversation. But anyway, yeah, there's something that I really miss about meeting in person and

1:24:47Francesco Castronuovo: I don't know, connect with people in a different way. I don't know how to say, but anyway it's different. Can feel the difference when you can meet in person.

1:25:01Janne Parri: Yeah, yeah. There's always the like, you have to go to the place and you wonder is this worth it? But afterwards you are always like excited and motivated and pumped and you never regret seeing like people in the real life, especially like-minded people. So yeah, there is something to it. And I believe everyone like knows it even though everyone is of course excited also about them. Internet side of things and yeah okay there is one funny little section to top this conversation off so I have these Finnish sayings that have been translated into English so I'm gonna tell you a Finnish saying and give the word to word

1:26:00Janne Parri: Translation and you have to guess what the saying like means it might be a metaphor what it what the metaphor means and yeah, we'll see if you get it right no pressure this

1:26:14Francesco Castronuovo: So I'll this repeat once again. I'm not sure I got it right.

1:26:45Janne Parri: It suits like a thug's and literal translation is fits like a fist in the eye, like a actual fist in the eye. And yeah, your job is to guess what that means.

1:27:03Francesco Castronuovo: Like a fist in the eye. So, I mean, if I think my eye, I mean, the sensation or the feeling is not that pleasant. So I'm not sure if this is a good thing. I would say no, probably. So maybe I would say that it doesn't... Yeah, maybe you can use it when something doesn't fit at all. And you want to highlight that.

1:27:36Janne Parri: Actually it is the opposite. Yeah, it fits perfectly. It fits if I say that, yeah, this image fits like a fist in the eye. It means that it fits perfectly because for some reason it fits or meant to go to your eye. Yeah, it is just a weird Finnish saying.

1:28:01Francesco Castronuovo: Really? No way. No, no. Because I think in Italy we have something similar, I don't remember but... But anyway, for sure I remember that this is not a good expression, you don't really want to convey a pleasant feeling when you use that expression. Wow, I was sure about that. Wow, so it was the opposite. That's interesting.

1:28:28Janne Parri: Yeah, this is the funny part of course the all the languages all the cultures have their own weird quirks and yeah, I wanna just sprinkle a little bit of finish to these episodes So yeah francesco, this has been awesome if people want to hear more from you, where should they go?

1:28:53Francesco Castronuovo: It was a- On LinkedIn, guess, for sure. I think you just have to type Francesco Castronuovo on LinkedIn and you can find me. Same name, but on YouTube if you want to know a little bit about Buffalo actually. Then I also have an ex account, which I'm trying to grow. On ex, probably my name is something like Francesco Flow, I guess.

1:29:24Janne Parri: Nice. Yeah, I will put all the links in the description so you don't have to the right wording. I'm struggling with X2, so it is not a big thing in Finland. But I know that there is a lot of webflow talk going on there, so I should be on that too. So yeah.

1:29:44Francesco Castronuovo: Thank you. Yeah, that's that. And then, we have super cycle. Again, we still have to grow our community of English speaking people. Yeah, anyway, we have we have the website. We have our business and I'm really proud of that, actually. And again, if I can say once again, I'll be grateful forever to Igor and to his brother, to Sergey for.

1:30:13Francesco Castronuovo: For this chance. I don't know if they're going to listen to this episode, I will tell them. I hope they will.

1:30:22Janne Parri: They will end and fist in the eye part and stop there.

1:30:29Francesco Castronuovo: I would be curious to hear your opinion about that. And then thanks for you, Janne. It's been a great pleasure. It was such a good conversation. Actually, because I'm... I don't know if you got it, but I'm quite shy and I tend to be very nervous.

1:30:33Janne Parri: You

1:30:54Francesco Castronuovo: When I talk to other people but I mean it was super easy to talk with you.

1:31:02Janne Parri: Yeah, yeah. It didn't come out at all. It is the magic of this like two way conversation when we have just two people, it is way easier. And, of course there will be people watching, but it, this is just a regular conversation in a way. Of course I have planned a couple of things beforehand, but I feel that this is a great way to get to know people and actually talk about interesting stuff and of course do some like actual content on top of that. So for me, this has been very, very exciting and I'm pumped still about this.

1:31:48Francesco Castronuovo: Yeah, but I I think you're doing a awesome job. It's not common to, I mean, there are a lot of people doing podcasts, I mean, having the ability to make the other people kind of relax and have this kind of supernatural conversation. I don't think it's that common to be honest. So just want to compliment.

1:32:10Janne Parri: Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, that really warms my heart and yeah, okay I'll let you go with your Saturday and thanks once again and for the listeners. Thanks for tuning in and we'll see in the next one

1:32:29Francesco Castronuovo: Thank you. Let's keep in touch. Of course, by the way.