The (MCP) Future of Webflow

0:21Janne Parri: Okay, Yar. So Webflow MCP, is this the future of editing websites in Webflow?

0:29Yar Al Roshidi: Well, the Webflow MCP ⁓ has been around. ⁓ a little more than a year. When it was introduced, everyone was so happy because we're just starting to use these AI tools like Claude and Cursor. And they introduced this tool that you connected to your Webflow website and was like, my God, that's something we've been waiting for a long time. When it started, I think it was just controlling the CMS. Just backend stuff, nothing in the designer, nothing in the visual part. More like data structure, CMS, ⁓ know, making like blog posts or articles or things like that through the MCP, which was great. And you could connect it to Cursor and Claude. ⁓ And ⁓ I've played around with it so much, made a few videos as well. I was so happy with it.

1:12Yar Al Roshidi: Then they updated it as well. They allowed more CMS features like creating fields, creating a full collection. It had more tools by then. But then a few days before the conference, a few days before the Webflow conference, they announced like now it controls the designer, it has some design tools. You can do visual stuff with it through the AI. Which is something really, like it's been, we were waiting for this for a long time. This is something has been much anticipated and we finally got it. I've been playing around with it a lot. Now, I think there are 42 tools in total in the Webflow MCP. I use it with Cursor mainly and I've been playing around with it a lot. It's very interesting. It's really, really powerful. And I see, I mean, it's still new.

2:07Yar Al Roshidi: Let's say it's still young. It's like a baby designer or a baby developer. But I see this to be a very big thing that can really help us shorten the way we work by a lot. We can, a 10 hour job can be a 10 minutes job. Something like that. It's really good. But yeah. This is mainly the MCP. Then in the Webflow conference, they announced more advancement on this MCP. And then they announced that there will be something in Webflow to kind of replace the MCP, but they will still operate separately. So we're still waiting on that. I saw a preview of it on the Webflow conference. Looks super promising, but I still feel like the MCP is something that they should work on.

3:00Yar Al Roshidi: Make it powerful and I think it's really powerful and has a lot of potential on it.

3:06Janne Parri: Yeah, yeah, totally agree with that. I've been ⁓ playing around with the mcp a little bit and i've seen your videos about it and as you said it has so much potential But i'm already like thinking about the Webflow like native ai builder and ⁓ what if it is just like very basic? Basic stuff and the MCP is actually better because you can hook it up with your choice of LLM and can like Webflow train an AI and compete with other AI's. So what does your like crystal ball say for the future, which will win?

3:53Yar Al Roshidi: I know what Flow's been trying to do this AI thing. They did something like the AI builder. I think a few months back where you can use an AI builder on a specific template. That's where they made these specific templates. You can go and build with the chat prompts. You can build websites. But they're fixed on the template so you don't have much options there. I don't know if that was much of success. I honestly didn't see much use cases about it. But then they are trying, like in the Webflow conference, saw this, basically it's the integration of this MCP inside Webflow. It's great, and I think it's something that might be enhanced and can be useful. However, I still think that the MCP is something that they should focus on more. And this connection between ⁓ Webflow and the MCP will help Webflow.

4:42Yar Al Roshidi: ⁓ be that great product, be that great website builder, while this AI feature is kind of externalized. So you just use like Cursor or Claude and in Cursor you can use different models like GPT or Grok or any of those. And then you have that handled in Cursor, but then you have your Webflow website. It's fully Webflow. The features are, let's say, more powerful. And I'm sure if, let's say, they integrate this inside Webflow, there's gonna be a lot of limitations because I mean, one of the problems I'm facing right now with the [Webflow] MCP is the token limit. And it's like, you do one page or one job, it's a bit complex, you're wasting a lot of your tokens and you start hitting limits. Which is something that, I mean, the calls that this MCP does a call to Webflow and then gets a result.

5:38Yar Al Roshidi: Usually these results come very long, detailed, very long. And I think if they work on enhancing this part specifically, it can improve a lot of what we can do with this MCP. And it can really be a way to just, you know, replace whatever they want to integrate inside the platform. I think the platform should just be focused on its, you know, the cool platform, the waffle platform that we like the... The interactions, the designer tool that we use. And I like that there is now an AI assistant so you can ask it questions on the go, which is also useful. But then you connect it to your MCP. Then you get access through an AI to your website, which is great. And recently as well, there has been something called code Components. I've been looking into it today.

6:33Yar Al Roshidi: And this is something really cool. Like this is something that can be very powerful. You can use it with the MCP and imagine how much you can create with such a thing. To answer your question, if I think AI inside Webflow is great, I don't know. I'm sure you've used some of those like Loveable or Replit or these tools that you just prompt and it builds. And these tools are great as well, but ⁓ the builds are not. That efficient in the back end. I mean, it does have some limitations. Yeah, I think Webflow should focus more on the core product. I think that's the main thing.

7:08Yar Al Roshidi: That's the beauty of Webflow. So.

7:09Janne Parri: Again, I totally agree. And about those lovable and such. Yeah. It's a, it's a like hard thing to do when you have to like prompt everything. Of course they have implemented more controls, but if there could be a pro tool that has a working AI agents or integration to some sort of AI agent. So you could do it manually. You could do it ⁓ with AI, whichever you prefer in whichever specific use case is that could be like the ultimate goal. ⁓ And I would say that like Webflow has done so many like very technical features lately, like ⁓

7:57Janne Parri: Starting from DevLink and Webflow Claude and the code components. ⁓ So it would be hard for me to see that they would scrap this MCP thing because well, coders love integrations and this is basically one way to integrate and make it more open. So yeah, okay, ⁓ we're diving deep into the nerdy stuff. So we have to do little introduction. ⁓ So my name is Janne Parri. I'm your host today and I'm a general Webflow dude from Finland and with me today is Yar. Yar, you are in Spain, Barcelona and your day job is a senior Webflow developer in NoCo, which is a Dutch Webflow agency. So...

8:49Janne Parri: Where are your clients and how does your remote work?

8:56Yar Al Roshidi: Yeah, so, well, happy to be here. Thank you for the introduction. I've been working with NoCo for almost a year now, but a year before that, I was working with them as a freelancer, so that's how it started. And yeah, I've been going back and forth to Amsterdam every once in a while. We meet the team there, they have a nice office. But mainly I work from here, from Barcelona. Remote work is something I got used to it because I was a freelancer before this as well. So I got used to working remotely with clients from different parts of the world. So when I joined NoCo, it wasn't that hard to adapt. Now at NoCo, we work with clients that are kind of local to the Dutch market. And mainly now they're getting more clients from the US. So we're getting...

9:45Yar Al Roshidi: I think a few projects now, the majority of the projects are from the US. But yeah, there's a mix of the Dutch and the US and the portfolio. Working with NoCo has been great. Mean, they have a great team. They have a great designer that I like working with. And I've been, yeah, it's been a year almost. So I've been working on some nice websites.

10:08Janne Parri: Yeah, yeah, that is beautiful. And one thing I didn't mention in the intro, but you also do quite a lot of YouTube videos. So if our viewers have Googled like Webflow MCP in the past couple of months, they have probably seen your face. So where do you find the time to do all the YouTube videos?

10:29Yar Al Roshidi: Yeah, I mean, it's not that easy. I mean, I guess you can relate. It's something that takes time. But I mainly do it like in bulk. I do this bulk recording. Sometimes I just put on the camera, have something to talk about, and I do it. Sometimes it turns nice. Sometimes it doesn't. Not all the videos come great. However, I always like to explore more. Test out more new things on Webflow. I've been working on this platform for quite a while, so I really wanted to share the knowledge with a lot of people. I get a lot of from people on how to do this, how to do that, so this can be great to create videos. I create videos that are mainly educational on Webflow. Yeah, also with my use cases sometimes, I run into some complicated use cases and I solve them and I go like, my God.

11:20Yar Al Roshidi: I'm sure someone else has this problem, so let's make a video to solve it. So we do that. And yeah, now it's been a couple of years. I'm here and there, but yeah, it's been a couple of years. So now I'm more used to it, more comfortable doing it. I have a better setup, as you can see. So yeah, it's working well.

11:38Janne Parri: Yeah, I can totally relate to the struggle. Everyone knows that they should be doing more content and usually this client work and other stuff that skip the line and have to be managed before that. And then it's already evening and you're tired and so on and so forth. But I could ask before we dive back into the nerdy stuff. Do you still do like freelance projects, like projects of your own every now and then maybe?

12:08Yar Al Roshidi: I do my own side project sometimes that ⁓ that is something I cannot give up especially now with the AI tools and all this AI advancements that are happening So I always like to ⁓ play around these tools test them out even on Webflow. I like to do my own side projects work on new features ⁓ try new things it's a bit like you said it's a bit difficult to manage the time some days you're like super tired after client work, you go like, what can I do now? Just go to sleep. Yeah, mean, it gets easier once you just push hard through it gets easier. And you can do much more in a day than you would think.

12:46Janne Parri: Yeah, yeah, totally. And when you look at, look like backwards, when you do a little bit at the time, after a couple of years, you realize that you have done actually quite much. So it's a long marathon, more than a sprint, so to speak. But yeah, kind of relating to your videos, of course, the MCP has been there like recently, but I have seen a couple of videos about the new GSAP UI in a Webflow. So I believe just today, they rolled out the updates that they talked about in the Webflow Conf. So what is your like current

13:32Janne Parri: Feel of the tool? It like mature? Is there still bugs and would you use it in an actual client project?

13:42Yar Al Roshidi: It's been a great tool. I was really happy when they released it. Ever since they said we acquired GSAP, I was certainly sure that they're going to release something like that. It was coming. I played around with it. It does have some limitations. I mean, it's only today that this new update that came out, it's only today that we can do breakpoints animations. So we can set the animations for breakpoints. Before that, was something like you can do manually, choose custom trigger, and then you basically do code to trigger on mobile. But now they integrated it natively. I haven't used it much. It's just been this morning I saw the announcement.

14:21Yar Al Roshidi: And yeah, they're improving on it. They're bit by bit. They're adding to it. For simple use cases, let's say like slide in or scroll, simple scroll animation, split text animation. I think this could work. There's no issues with that. You can set it up on a real project and just ship it. But for ⁓ very complex animations, especially with ⁓ these special plugins that G-Sub have, like Motion Path or Draw SVG, these are not there yet in ⁓ the Webflow interaction. So you still have to go back to using code and ⁓ pasting that as JavaScript.

14:56Yar Al Roshidi: Which is fine, I mean, we've been doing that for a while, but ⁓ I see it coming. I see ⁓ a point where Webflow just has all the G-sub features where you don't have to use code and just do the G-sub features there. ⁓ Also, one thing I would really like to see is this being integrated at the MCP where you have interaction tools, MCP, now that will be awesome.

15:18Janne Parri: Yeah, you mentioned at the start that there are something like 40 tools, like 40 specific things

15:24Yar Al Roshidi: Yeah, 42.

15:26Janne Parri: You can do with the MCP. But yeah, I guess this is not yet there. But I wonder how hard it would be to do a feature like that. I'm not a like, in that sense, developer. But yeah, do you have any ideas if it's even like possible?

15:47Yar Al Roshidi: Definitely it's possible, ⁓ definitely it's hard. I am not that extensive of a developer, but ⁓ I think it's something that can be done. Like right now, what you can do with the MCP is space the script, so you can make the script ⁓ and the Cursor, and then it just goes in line on your site. By having direct access to the interaction tool, that would be really cool. And I think that would be a big announcement from Webflow. Because it's something that can be very hard to do, especially now that the GSAP thing is still in process. It's changing. It's developing. So I'm not sure. Webflow, you're hearing this, please consider having interaction tools in the MCP. Right now, there are 42 tools.

16:36Yar Al Roshidi: Most of them are collections and backend stuff. But these new tools that are designer focused. Yeah, so if you add some tools that are interaction focused, will be great. Also, by the way, I don't know, when using the API, I don't know if you've used the designer API or the extension, the API, the REST API from Webflow. Also, there is not much API calls for interactions. Which I wonder why. But yeah.

17:05Janne Parri: I haven't used those but yeah basically no clue maybe it is just not a priority for them

17:13Yar Al Roshidi: Yeah, guess the focus

17:16Janne Parri: I guess that's the boring answer, always.

17:20Yar Al Roshidi: Is always somewhere else. Don't know. But the team is doing great work, so whatever that in their priority list, it's OK. It's acceptable.

17:29Janne Parri: But yeah, in the last Webflow Conf, which was a week or two ago, we kind of, or the community kind of got what they asked for. Many of us were like asking about this basic updates, the basic features like CMS. Or some other improvements of life ⁓ updates. Of course there was AI, it started with the AI and it looked quite bad at the start, but then it got better till the end. So what's your thoughts on the Webflow Conf? Did you see any exciting new features that we haven't talked about yet?

18:07Yar Al Roshidi: I mean, most of these features are still to be rolled out by the end of the year. So I saw the announcements, but I still didn't play around with them. So I don't know much. It looked cool. And yes, there was a lot of features that answered the community needs. I mean, we know we have the wishlist page. ⁓ So we have some wishlist features, like a CMS slider, for example. It's something that we've been wanting for a long time. But ⁓ yeah, think Webflow is starting to give more to the community, listen more to what the community needs, what the developers are asking for, and just develop on that. And I think this is great. Mean, this ⁓ is key to making a better platform. The AI features and all those are still something that is not very much used. I mean,

18:56Yar Al Roshidi: Yeah, they're cool, but how am I gonna use this with a client project on a short deadline on some specific asks and specific brand ⁓ guidelines? It can get a bit tricky. Given that we're Webflow developers, we know what to do. We don't have to ask the AI, which can, maybe he can do it, but he or she, or it. ⁓ It can do it, but yeah, you do it faster eventually. I would rather do it myself than use the AI. Now, this is developing. We'll see how it develops. But for now, I think the core features are more appreciated by us in the community. Don't you think?

19:36Janne Parri: Yeah, yeah, totally. Of course, there are some like some small like AI features that actually seemed quite handy. For example, the meta titles and description generation. Of course, again, as always with the AI, there is the question, can I trust this? So can I trust the AI to, let's say, write my company name correctly or that sort of things. But I always hate, on doing the page settings and the alt texts and those sort of tedious stuff. So I'm kind of excited about the AI, although it kind of felt like it is more like for the investors, just because every company has to do like AI features nowadays. But yeah.

20:29Janne Parri: I'm totally pumped about just little updates to the CMS. But there was this one thing, of course, which is just announcement. It hasn't rolled out yet. It was this component canvas thing. Like a Figma inside of Webflow to generalize much, quite much. A new place. Where one can like edit components. It seems to be a good idea. Of course, time will tell, will it like work? But it is kind of weird to see that, well, Figma is announcing Figma sites like stepping on Webflow's toes. And now Webflow is kind of hitting back, so to speak. And then there's Framer trying to do everything like,

21:18Janne Parri: AI generating everything starting from the site maps and those things. So this landscape is quite interesting to follow and I'm not sure what to think of it like where should I put my money on and so on. Any thoughts about those things?

21:37Yar Al Roshidi: I like how you ⁓ saw it. It's Webflow getting back at Figma for making Figma sites. Which, I mean, it makes sense. Mean, these guys just rolled out Figma sites. I don't know if it's a competitor to Webflow directly. I think it's more competitor to Framer than Webflow. We ⁓ all know Webflow is much more extensive or much more know, enterprise focused tool which where you can build big very big websites that can scale that can be managed with CMS. So ⁓ That's always been its ⁓ its unique selling point or its advantage in the market and I think that's something that's very hard to replicate even if Figma rolls out sites or Framer rolls out more of CMS on the on the component canvas

22:28Yar Al Roshidi: That was an interesting one. I saw it. And to be honest, I think it's going to be very useful, because now components are something we use a lot. I've been using more components, especially with the new instances, the new variables that you can use with the component. It's been very useful. But to be honest, you can have a long list, let's say, so many components in your project, and it's going to be hard to look through them. Browse them. On Figma we use components and don't know, good designers they always give us like a component page or you can see through it

23:00Yar Al Roshidi: Which is very convenient so I think having that in Webflow can be really useful you see all your components and like a bird's eye view and choose and pick from them. I think it's gonna be a great feature I can't wait to use that one. Yeah cool.

23:16Janne Parri: Yeah, I'm excited about that too. And to be clear, it's probably not going to replace Figma anytime soon. So it is just a place for like building components. But as you said, there is a push towards this component based building also in Webflow. Like the old editor is being deprecated and clients should use like the build mode. Or the mode that they have rights to and use the components, which is in my perspective, a good way to go. And I like it. Of course, it means that we as the developers have to build those components. And as you said, there can be huge lists of those components and component properties and so on. So have you found any like

24:08Janne Parri: Balance on how much components you do and do you do like more static components or do you try to build like a master component that can morph into whatever need the client wants.

24:22Yar Al Roshidi: Yeah, I've been playing, like I've been doing static components, CMS components. Now we have the slot, page slot, the component slot as well, which is really, really cool. It's giving a lot of power to the build and to how you give it to the client, because at the end of the day, the client gets the website and then sometimes they wanna like change something and they might. Misclick or something might happen, they don't know how to fix it and it turns out to be bad. But then with components, this is way more manageable. Things, especially the design and the styles are way more manageable inside the component. The chances of something breaking is very low. I mean, of course, if the components are built well.

25:06Yar Al Roshidi: And yeah, like there's so much to it, like the variance thing, the instance thing, so you can have different instances of the same component. This is really cool. Having CMS, and now that you can add filters, conditions, it's getting really powerful. Sometimes I even go for components instead of like CMS, know, for like stuff like marquee or a simple logo section or something like that. I use a component. You know, make properties instead of having a full-on CMS.

25:34Janne Parri: Yeah, and one update which did not come out of the Webflow Conf, but is huge. Well, minor thing, but huge deal for many of us is that you can like handpick the CMS items to show on your components or on your list. I don't know why that took so long. But yeah, you mentioned the variable instances or are they like variable modes?

25:59Yar Al Roshidi: Yeah, I'm out.

25:59Janne Parri: And yeah, sometimes I almost like forget them or their existence because there are so many things you can do with the features. Webflow is growing to become a huge, like very complicated tool. And I totally get the way you can use them with like different screen sizes. I have like managed to put that in my head, but then you could do so much more. So have you found any good examples, way to use them? Usually many people use them with the themes, so you can have dark theme or light theme in a section or page and so on, but have you found any other examples?

26:45Yar Al Roshidi: Like right now, most I use it, sorry, it's modes or instances. I keep mixing them up as well. They're new features, sometimes the naming gets mixed up. But I'm recently using this mainly with buttons. Let's say you have your primary, secondary, tertiary button. Just drop down, you choose it. Been very convenient, you know, instead of like having that combo class. Way that we used to do it before with buttons, I think the most convenient way. Also with like grid, grids, it's really convenient to have like a grid, you know, like a grid slot and then you add to it, you make a two grid, three grid, and you can handle that better across pages. Another thing that I've been recently doing with components is spacing. So instead of using a div that as a spacer, I use a component.

27:36Yar Al Roshidi: That is a spacer and then I have the instances of its sizes which really helps. And yeah, I think, I don't know if you've used Lumis framework.

27:48Janne Parri: Yeah, I've played around with it.

27:50Yar Al Roshidi: It's component heavy, it's very component heavy. It's interesting how they set up the component and you can change a lot of things, change a lot of instances. Mean, it's out of the box, you get some component ready set, you can get ideas of how you can do your own. So yeah, it's been interesting to see what the community is doing with components and yeah, we try.

28:14Janne Parri: We try, we try, yeah. As you said, this gets quite complicated. Were talking about component modes, but then there's this other variable-like instances, or well, they are not modes, but you can assign specific values for variables. For let's say screen size or some other things. So yeah, it gets complicated. Of course, if you like understand the concepts, you can build very cool and very scalable things, which is kind of the thing that Timothy Ricks tries to do with the Lumos. It is on another level. Is utilizing all the, all the features and all the features in

29:08Janne Parri: Basic CSS and HTML. ⁓ that is ⁓ definitely worth a look. Even if you do not use it, you can get so many ⁓ good ideas on how you can build in Webflow. But I remember relating to this, remember seeing you posted on LinkedIn ⁓ that you like to use Client-First. So we're getting to the framework question. And is that still the case? And why do you think that Client-First is suitable for your use case?

29:40Yar Al Roshidi: Yeah, that has been a very controversial post, a lot of negative and positive feedback from it. But I still do prefer Client-First. Again, not that Lumos is not good. Lumos is a very good framework. And like you said, even if you don't use it's always good to know it to know what's been used there and learn from it, which is great. ⁓ It's like great to have this in the community. But I don't know, lately, well the past couple of years, it's been getting a lot of updates and massive updates where you have to like watch videos, ⁓ go through documentations, try to find the resources to understand how this is done or spend time, know, spend hours to relearn the framework.

30:30Yar Al Roshidi: And these hours are valuable hours that the client wouldn't pay for or the company would not pay for. It's something that is personal. I don't know. Now, also there's an app. So you use an app to synchronize with the framework sizes. So yeah, it's getting a lot to it. But when it comes to Client-First, Client-First is... ⁓ It's a breeze, you know, so when I learned it first, it's been so easy. I mean, it's not as, you know, deep as Lumos, but you can make it deep. Mean, this is the beauty of it. You can make it however you want, you know, ⁓ it's the base for you and then you build on top of it. And you build it custom for your specific project, for your specific use case. You don't have a lot of out of the box, you know, already set up stuff that... ⁓

31:19Yar Al Roshidi: Gets hard to edit sometimes. These components are really cool, and they use all the components features. But then in your use case, you might have a difficulty adapting it to your project. Not all projects are the same, of course. And then Client-First, yeah, it's been around for a while. It's been similar for a while. Everyone knows Client-First. A lot of developers, all the developers I worked with in ⁓ Webflow developers, they know Client-First, they're familiar with it, they can work on a Client-First project. We had the Finsweet tools which also helped making things easier with Client-First. And then ⁓ Relume came in, and that was wow. And they used Client-First. So yeah, think I still use those.

32:05Yar Al Roshidi: So Client-First has been ⁓ the thing I use the most. And again, it's not against Lumos, but yeah, I think it's the framework that you can easily build on top of however you like. So you can build something that gets even more complex and deep than Lumos for your certain project. It's not like a general thing. And the updates as well, it's something that I understand the Client-First is by a big company, Lumos is by a smaller team, but the updates, the frequent updates, heads up about the updates, these sometimes get really frustrating. I the last time this happened, ⁓ I started the project on a Lumos framework, midway through the project, we get a new update, a whole different thing.

32:52Yar Al Roshidi: You have to watch, re-watch the videos, adapt to the new stuff. Yeah, it's tricky.

32:58Janne Parri: There is a value for that sort of like stability. The foundation, at least the foundation of the framework is the same. And if you visit your old projects, that is not completely different than the new one. And it brings some sort of feeling of safety to the developer too. You do not, you, do not end up in a place where you have so, so many different ways of building, even though you like use the same framework. But yeah, I'm totally with you that Lumos is absolutely awesome. It's the most like robust and technical framework there, but many times I might even say

33:43Janne Parri: Like every time you ⁓ can do just fine with the Client-First. As you said, you can build whatever you want on top of that. So yeah, it is a fascinating talk and it gets some people a bit emotional about, but yeah. But about Client-First, I have been actually at least two projects I have been using. The new beta version. So

34:08Yar Al Roshidi: All right.

34:09Janne Parri: They are bringing new features to the Client-First. I'm not sure what the timeline is. It has been around for a while. Mean the beta ⁓ like cloneable and there are more variables. There are ⁓ a little less nesting inside the divs. So those are cool. And ⁓ Yeah, I've been using that in actual projects. The only thing that bothers me is that for some reason, the Relume copying does not work perfectly. So although I have the class sync on, it keeps duplicating the classes. So that is frustrating. I wish that they could push it out of the beta and just publish it and Relume could do their magic and

34:55Janne Parri: Update all their components. ⁓ Yeah, Relume is a big thing why I still use Client-First. Yeah, have you checked out the ⁓ new beta cloneable?

35:07Yar Al Roshidi: I did check it out and by the way, I'm similar to you, Relume is now one of the biggest reasons I use Client-First. Even though Relume has their own, now they're trying to make their own version of Client-First that is Relume compatible, which is cool, but yeah, you still use Client-First project and then you add some Relume components and they use the same structure, which is great. Yeah, I've used the beta and it's cool that they're... I mean, it's about time that they make something that is adaptable to the new features, variables, components, all the breakpoints and the styles and modes and all those, which is great, but still I think the core features are still there. Seems lately Finsweet are getting a bit slower.

35:53Yar Al Roshidi: Updates but yeah I mean they finally released version 2 of attributes which was great, I'm very happy for that. But yeah, they're taking their time, I think, with the thing.

36:03Janne Parri: Yeah, and I'm not sure if it's only up to them because there's now this board of directors. So there's Relume guys and the community and every change has to go through the voting system. Although we have not seen the voting yet. So someone is like bottle necking the hell out of this, but yeah, we are excited and waiting for that. But ⁓ We mentioned Relume a couple of times. ⁓ Do you like use the ⁓ Site builder in your Webflow or do you just use parts? Like just copy some components or how ⁓ does it play in your Webflow?

36:42Yar Al Roshidi: I do use the site builder quite often. It's actually really good. Mean, especially creating wireframes and site maps to like have a thing that you can right away discuss with the client. Okay, this is how it's gonna look like. And these are your site maps. These are the sections we're gonna use. And you can get feedback right away without getting into too much build. It's been very useful. I use it quite often. And then you can now they're adding more there's the style guide option the design option which is cool, but I think still not really there yet. I mean, it's cool to start the project we're still to do this on a big scale or on like a very enterprise scale it's still it still needs some more improvement. However, though the wireframe part

37:27Yar Al Roshidi: It's super convenient because you can just copy the page or pages into your Webflow project. It saves you like ⁓ half of the time, you know, setting up the elements and naming the components, naming the classes, which can be sometimes frustrating. And yeah, so I really like Relume. I think Relume is one of the coolest things in the community that's happening. They just started so simple, ⁓ grew to something really huge. ⁓ Now they're like almost $100 million worth, which is great. Mean, they're almost as big as Webflow. Yeah. I mean, it's ⁓ for them.

38:02Janne Parri: Bunkers. And they I believe they have the capability of like copying the elements to Figma sites now or something like that. Sounds to me like a side quest, but whatever, But about Relume, the way I use it is I usually do the sitemap and the wireframes. Maybe a bit of like the design side, but I usually just copy the wireframes to Figma and then design in Figma. And then when I start a Webflow project, I copy those same wireframes to Webflow and then build them there. I've lately, I have been thinking

38:53Janne Parri: Could there be even like faster way to build design ⁓ in Figma and build ⁓ in Webflow? Which kind of brings me or us back to the MCP. I know that there is a Figma MCP, server. ⁓ Have you tried that? And would it be possible to like ⁓ have one AI to like handle both of them and then just say that, copy this design from Figma put it in Webflow?

39:23Yar Al Roshidi: Yeah, I've gave that a shot. I tried that for sure. Yeah, I think the Webflow MCP is more powerful than the Figma MCP. The Figma MCP still does not give you that much. It works if like, let's say content wise, that works really well. But copying like, let's say the entire page into Webflow, not there yet. Even components, not that much. Again, most of these with the MCP will cost you a lot of tokens and then you hit the limit. And then you, like halfway or like not even get the job done, you hit the limit because the AI wastes all the tokens. I know there is the Figma to Webflow app. It's something that I think they, that should get better.

40:04Yar Al Roshidi: It's really cool now you can do like variables and styles and you can just like migrate those really easily. It's still not there with the build, with like the actual build. It's kind of, it's good but it's not that efficient and it doesn't copy like let's say if you have like a big element with a lot of pictures, it will tell you cannot copy all the images. But when it comes to like styles and variables, if let's say the designer makes these projects with a lot of variables and ⁓ these style names, you can just migrate those with the Figma to Webflow app. It happens instantly, saves you lot of time in the build. Yeah.

40:42Janne Parri: I should definitely check that one out ⁓ again, because I remember checking it out when it was quite new. And now there's ⁓ some updates clearly, but doesn't it kind of feel like that there are multiple things trying to do the same thing like the MCP, the possible or upcoming AI builder agent thingy, ⁓ and the Webflow. Figma to Webflow app every one of those ⁓ tries to like make it faster and easier to edit ⁓ the Webflow things instead of using just the designer

41:19Janne Parri: Any thoughts?

41:20Yar Al Roshidi: I would bet on the MCP, I would say just go all out on the MCP, drop the rest of the stuff. I the MCP can get you what both of these tools get you if it's done strongly. And like you mentioned a while back, it might be something that they have to do for the board of directors. We have AI features, which is cool. But I think the MCP can be something that, improved, can save a lot of time, can help a lot of developers, and can be a great powerful feature to build on Webflow. I mean, if, let's say, the MCP gets really good, you can just paste a screenshot of your Figma design into the MCP and send it to a Webflow to build it, ⁓ which ⁓ saves most of the time that a Figma to Webflow app would do.

42:05Yar Al Roshidi: Yeah, I think that's the most promising one. And again, then you have the option to get other tools like Figma or even like a super Bass or Notion or something, and you get their MCPs and you have all these MCPs inside your Cursor workspace. You can do so much powerful stuff. I think, yeah, I that on the MCP, if I was Webflow, I would just go on and the MCP.

42:29Janne Parri: Yeah, of course the MCP is kind of a bit more technical when you compare it to a native AI chat. But then again, as you said, Webflow is getting to a point that it serves more or bigger clients and maybe enterprise clients. And that is not a huge deal when you have dedicated people to use those features. But I kind of feel that ⁓ webflow is missing maybe intentionally like the newcomers. So if I would start a web design business or something along the lines today, I would probably go with Framer because it's easy to use. And it almost has every little feature ⁓ that we mentioned, almost like design and all Relume features and the building things.

43:24Janne Parri: Inside one app, don't you think?

43:27Yar Al Roshidi: Yeah, yeah, like if I would start a business right now, I would choose Framer. I would go for Framer. It's definitely the faster option, the one that looks nice ⁓ out of the box, like super easy. You can make it look really cool. The animations are smooth. But then ⁓ it's like... Let's say I start a company and up until I get my first round of funding and when I get my first round of funding, I'm gonna go Webflow, you know, because then it's about scaling and I need to scale my website. I have more information to put and then ⁓ I need something that scales well, efficient on the browser and the SEO, AEO, however it is. And that looks nice. ⁓

44:09Yar Al Roshidi: And then by then, of course, I will need someone to handle this. I will have a Webflow developer or a developer that's handling the Webflow side. And yeah, I think that's, for example, it's like building apps. Like let's say now you build some cool app with like a lovable or a Replit and... And you can release it, but then it's not really a scalable app. And then once you, let's say, you want to scale it, or happens that, let's say you got funding or it starts to scale, you will need to go to a native option. You need to get a developer. You need to make this proper breakdown, refactor codes, make it secure, and all those stuff. Yeah, I think.

44:49Yar Al Roshidi: I think the Webflow part is the more advanced websites or the more advanced companies. And they're focusing on that. They're aware of this and they're pushing ⁓ on those clients, on those users that use big, extensive websites. ⁓

45:04Janne Parri: Yeah, the app comparison is actually great. I have to remember that further down the line. But yeah, Webflow is clearly aiming for the bigger users or bigger companies. And it might be even a good thing that we have things like Framer, like when we think of us like, well, freelancers and Webflow agencies. Because now we have a specific like targets and Webflow kind of like reinforces that. So newcomers, let's say if you are totally new web design freelancer, you might go with the framer option, but then like the Webflow.

45:49Janne Parri: Webflow developers might be a bit more rare because all the newcomers go to the framer and those other easier to use apps. So our work could be actually more valuable in the long run. Does that make sense?

46:04Yar Al Roshidi: It makes sense. I mean, say you're a new company and you come to make a website. Your budget might be a limited on how much you can spend on a website. You go to a developer, it gives you a quote. And it's very high. Usually, these developers are like, they take time, of course, to build on Webflow and their time is more valuable, let's say, than just like sprinting things up in Framer. Nothing against Framer developers, but then Framer developers can definitely get the job faster, given that Framer is a faster tool, and of course can go for a lower budget price. The newcomer can have a, like a,

46:46Yar Al Roshidi: You know, budgeted deal. The hosting as well is a bit lower than what Webflow offers on hosting. So the monthly payment will be a bit lower. And again, when a company is starting, mean, website is important, but then ⁓ also their operations, their budget, ⁓ there will be a lot of things. Then comes when they grow to a point where, okay, I can be comfortable making new... ⁓ projects, new technology, new websites, so then you get to Webflow. And I've seen this happen often, like I see it a lot. People come from older websites, the Framer, Wix, Squarespace, and they just migrate to Webflow because they wanna scale. So, yeah.

47:30Janne Parri: And in the last episode of this podcast, I talk with Igor Voroshilov and he kind of specializes in this WordPress, from WordPress to Webflow migration. And that's of course another beast to tame. Do you do those projects yourself or are you like in that group that says that no way? Not my cup of tea.

47:55Yar Al Roshidi: I try to not do it, but I have had some of those projects. They're extensive, they take time, especially getting the stuff out of WordPress. It's hell. It's not easy. And if you get tools, it's also expensive and takes time and you never know if the results are great, you go double check. It's a mess, it gets messy. There are some of these plugins that I've used in WordPress that extract, let's say, your CMS or something like that. It's still good, but not the best thing. But yeah, it's

48:28Yar Al Roshidi: Just super hard. We have some projects at NoCo. Thankfully at NoCo there are developers. In case something hits the fan, we can go to these developers. They can just solve it for us. But yeah, it's not easy. I must admit.

48:42Janne Parri: There's always some like formatting, like simple text formatting. When you export, let's say CMS stuff from WordPress, there's all sorts of sorts of short codes and weird fields. And they do not like come in the right form and you have to do all sorts of tricks to get the data into a nice, good, beautiful CSV to import into Webflow. Yeah, but of course, if you...

49:07Yar Al Roshidi: Yeah. Have you been through this? To ask. Have you done rescue?

49:12Janne Parri: Yeah, yeah, I have done one or one or two of these projects they are not my favorites and yeah, I consider if someone asks if I can do one of those I will consider it thoroughly before saying yes

49:26Yar Al Roshidi: Yeah, we talked to Igor to help us out with this.

49:33Janne Parri: Because of course that is a need that quite many companies have. And if you can be the guy or girl who like is known for that thing, that could be very, very like good for you and for your business. Okay. One, at least one thing that I still want to talk. With you is about Webflow apps. I know that you have some experience with Webflow apps. Tell us more about what apps you have done in your past and what apps you have right now and what is it like to build a Webflow app?

50:12Yar Al Roshidi: It's a Webflow apps when they introduced to a flow apps was such a great thing. I was super happy it's something that you know, it's getting more complex your Webflow projects can have more integrations right there and the designer and I started digging into how to build it I mean, of course the Webflow apps basically just like you have all the API's ⁓ API calls in some sort of an app. So you call the Webflow REST API to do some sort of function on your Webflow project. Like I tried to do it with TypeScript, but now I do it with Svelte. And there is a lot of code to it, but the results can be great. And also there is a possibility which I've used with a client where you can build something.

50:57Yar Al Roshidi: Specifically for them, like let's say a component app where they can just click on components or get stuff right of the app without having to go through a style guide or component page or something like that. And you can build that custom on their workspace, which is also something that can be very useful. I've built clean styles first. ⁓ Clean styles have been an app that I've been wanting to have. It's a feature that I've been wanting to have in Webflow, which is finding duplicates and merging them. Like duplicate classes that are in your project can be a lot and can get very messy, especially like multiple people work on the project. You know, it's been a long time since you worked on it, so you get back on it and you have a new way now of working, new styles to add. So there are styles that are there. So duplicates have been something that I really wanted to solve.

51:48Yar Al Roshidi: So I made clean styles for that.

51:50Janne Parri: So yeah, basically, you can use clean styles when your client has edited something and made a mess, so you can clean it up.

51:59Yar Al Roshidi: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mean, exactly. That's the point. Mean, just to help clean up your styles, help clean up your project. And it happens. It happens more than you would think. But let's say there are five classes that have a phone size one RAM. So yeah, it can get messy. And for example, you were mentioning earlier the Relume stuff. When you bring in Relume components, they come in button two, and then button three, and then button four. And you just clean those up with clean styles. Yeah, I've been, again, it's a feature that I really wanted to have. And when they released Webflow apps, it was possible. I made it. I give thanks to Keegan Larry, Web Bay, ⁓ Web Bay ⁓

52:39Yar Al Roshidi: Who taught me how to do these. So yeah, shout out to Web Bay. ⁓ Yeah.

52:46Janne Parri: Keegan has quite a few of his own handy little apps like SVG import and the asset bay and some others too

52:55Yar Al Roshidi: Yeah, Asset Bay. Clip Path Bay.

53:02Janne Parri: Yeah, Clip Bay, yeah.

53:03Yar Al Roshidi: That's a good one as well. I have a couple of Svelte as well. I use the same technology that Web Bay does. Again, he taught me how to do this. And yeah, now I have two apps, but there's more on the pipeline.

53:18Janne Parri: Beautiful. Can you tell anything about the upcoming apps? Some teasers maybe?

53:23Yar Al Roshidi: I mean, some AI stuff for sure, some AI apps. But yeah, let's wait and see. I mean, I'm still in the process. But clean styles, I'm putting a lot of focus on clean styles. I added more features to it. Now you can bulk rename classes. If you remember, the Finsweet tool had this folder naming feature, but then they removed it. So I made something that's where you can bulk rename, sparse folders.

53:50Janne Parri: Yeah, I it was the Finsweet extension and then there was some sort of update on web flows part and now they are updating or maybe doing an app version of that or something like that. But very handy tools there too.

54:09Yar Al Roshidi: There was also the combo merge where you merge combo classes. Yeah. So I created that too in clean styles. ⁓ It was something I used to use a lot. And when they discontinued it, I was like, no, this is, this is not good.

54:24Janne Parri: Yeah, I'll fix this. I'll do this on my own.

54:28Yar Al Roshidi: Yeah, exactly. My God. I'm going to do this. But, yeah, ⁓ I think Webflow apps is great. I mean, it takes a bit of time to just get to know how to get the hang of it. But then once you do, I think it's a very powerful thing. You can do a lot with it. Even AI stuff, like you can make an AI call, you can make a data API directly to open AI key. You just do a lot of things. But yeah, think Webflow apps are cool.

54:58Janne Parri: What if, what if a person like me who knows Webflow is not a expert coder, but does, is not scared of coding, wanted to start diving into the Webflow apps and building some simple little handy apps. What should I like do first? And what would be my path?

55:21Yar Al Roshidi: I mean now it's a blessing. We have Cursor. Cursor is my favorite coding tool. And then you can go to the documentations. They offer like a sample project, like a starter project, which you can download, plug into Cursor, and then you can start building. And this is like the fastest way to do it. You can do a lot with this. I mean, it's just straight out of the box. You take the sample. And you just add to the main code. You change it through Cursor. This ⁓ is there. Now, you can build almost ⁓ a lot of apps using that. It uses TypeScript, so it's ⁓ pretty powerful. However, if you get more into it and you start using technologies like Svelte and Vite for faster, let's say faster development process, faster testing,

56:09Yar Al Roshidi: More complex apps. Yeah, I think that then it will get more interesting. But yeah, to start, I would say get Cursor, get the sample project, give it a shot, see how far it takes you. And then, yeah, I'm gonna do, I'll be doing more, I wanna do more educational content, so I'm gonna be doing more educational content about building Webflow apps, because I think there's a lot of potential. A lot of people have great ideas, especially Webflow developers. They have great ideas on features that I don't even think of. But then it solves a problem that I have that I didn't know I have. So

56:46Yar Al Roshidi: ⁓ these guys can just plug in, make a Webflow app, push it to the marketplace. The second app I made is called Arc Text. It basically just arcs your text. So if you have a text, you can make it a circle. Something super simple, yeah. Or an arc, you know, like a half circle. Yeah. Super simple use case.

57:04Janne Parri: Yeah. That's cool.

57:08Yar Al Roshidi: Yeah, just make an app.

57:09Janne Parri: Yeah, why not? Why not? And that is actually my experience with the web pay apps to that. So I didn't know that I have this problem, but now it saves me a ton of time. So that is, that is awesome. And same with the clean styles. I have been playing around with that to a couple of times. So that is that is awesome. But are there any like fees or like up upkeep things I should consider before doing an app. Of course, if I use some sort of paid API, let's say, chat, GPT or open AR, those things. But if I just have a static app, do I have to pay for that in any way?

57:51Yar Al Roshidi: ⁓ Not really. So, ⁓ Webflow API has two things. There's a designer API and a data API. The designer API is where we build, let's say, designer extensions, something like clean styles or clip bath bay or these small ⁓ features that are ⁓ mainly inside the Webflow platform. We're not getting outside. We're not doing anything outside of it. And it's mainly focused on the designer tool. So we're not... Using CMS, we're not using any data that is, let's say, external use, just designer tools. So it's a designer extension. These are free. I mean, they don't cost anything. Of course, maintaining or updating them, it's something that you do personally as a preference. But then once you release it, there is not much to update. However, then it gets to the data API.

58:41Yar Al Roshidi: And the data API is where you use external resources plus the CMS. So here's where it might get costly. There might be some hosting that you'll be doing. There might be some data that you'll be saving. This is where you should consider some budget when you build those data apps. Like, for example, Asset Bay. It's using the data API. It calls to ChatGPT and of course this costs money and then that's why you need to sign up. Recently I've been talking about this Miyagi app. I don't know if you've seen it, Miyagi.

59:19Janne Parri: No, I haven't.

59:21Yar Al Roshidi: It's cool app. It's like an AI inside Webflow. So it's like a Cursor AI. You chat with it and it builds stuff for you and it does things for you. And it's using both, like this is a hybrid, they call it a hybrid app. So the hybrid app uses both designer extension and the data extension. So you still need to sign up, you still need to pay for credits, of course, but then you have access to both the designer and the data API. So yeah.

59:50Janne Parri: Yeah, that is super fascinating.

59:50Yar Al Roshidi: Yeah, designer extensions, designer extension, I would go for designer extension. If you're willing to build an app, go for a designer extension.

59:59Janne Parri: Yeah. First of all, first, of course, should start with something big, but you know how the minds work. My mind is already thinking on how I can get rich with this thing. So I'll probably start by Googling some or chat GPTing about Stripe integration or something like that.

1:00:21Yar Al Roshidi: Yeah, that's the first, like you have to do. If that API, then you can get monetized. You can monetize it for sure. Yeah. Nice.

1:00:29Janne Parri: Okay. A lot of, a lot of like Webflow talk, which is of course the idea of this, these podcasts, but I'm, kind of want to know if you nerd out on anything else than Webflow, let's say out of, out of like this work context, what is your like? Hobby or something that you nerd out on.

1:00:54Yar Al Roshidi: Well, I mean lately the AI has been the thing that I'm getting into. A lot of these AI tools, not only related to Webflow, like these image tools, the video tools that are going on, the voice tools. I mean there is a very cool tool called Sesame. Sesame.com, it's ⁓ super impressive how well they build the conversational AI. Yeah, so I've been getting into those a lot. But then again, as well, having very little time to do these stuff, I'm limited. Other than that, I try also to leave the digital world, do some sports. I like doing sports. So I'm like a regular sports guy, but...

1:01:35Yar Al Roshidi: It's my outlet out of this digital world. And I enjoy it. I enjoy running. I do weightlifting sometimes as well. Swimming as well.

1:01:42Janne Parri: How about, yeah, how about, I know that in Spain, paddle tennis is quite big thing.

1:01:49Yar Al Roshidi: Paddle, yeah. True, yeah, it's huge here. There's courts everywhere. And we play, we play often. There's an app you can just get into a team. And just whenever time is convenient for you find the spot and you just meet people this way and just play paddle. It's super cool, yeah. The culture here for paddle is super cool.

1:02:08Janne Parri: Yeah, we should have that kind of thing here in Finland. I live in a quite small town, but at least the bigger cities, that would be very helpful. Maybe there is something like that, but it's cool to see how technology brings people together in real world. That is super nice. But about the AI stuff, I just realized that well, we have these like voice clones and of course with notebook LM you kind of can get your own like podcast about topics and then there's video creation. So I'm kind of, I was one day wondering if this like video podcast thing will be a relic of the past and

1:02:58Janne Parri: We just let our AIs do the talking and they will be much more smooth talking and have more like better opinions and all that stuff. But yeah, that goes to the same pile as everything AI related, AI and future related.

1:03:17Yar Al Roshidi: I know, to be honest, I don't know. Like, I think we, like, I don't want to get too cliché, but I think the human touch is very, very important. And even like, today I saw Sora 2, Sora 2, the video generator, and the ad for it was really cool because it got some altman himself generated by this tool. So... As soon as you see the ad and you go like, something's off, I don't like this, know, something is not right. And then he goes like, okay, this is AI generated. I'm not really, you see him in space, you see him flying around and stuff. Yeah, I think it will get to a point where it gets really good and all that, but we still like the human part. Mean, now, especially now, like I think doing a podcast at this moment, at this stage,

1:04:09Yar Al Roshidi: While this AI thing is growing and you're growing, by then you just like you be the guy that I would like to watch Yan instead of going on an AI, watching an AI thing that I know is generated most of most of it I don't really I can't connect with it as much as a real

1:04:25Janne Parri: Yeah, yeah. I'm kind of, kind of and totally with you because even though like someday AI might rule the world and do everything for us, we still want to talk to a person and we are interested in other people's opinions, not the AI's opinion. And kind of same thing in like chess. The computers beat the best chess players, but there are huge amounts of people still playing chess against each other. And then there's all the leagues where human and computer teams play against each other. Some might even say that chess is more popular than ever. And maybe we will realize how cool it is to listen to some...

1:05:17Janne Parri: A Finnish person talking with very nerdy stuff as a non-native English speaker and so on but yeah it's fascinating to see where it all goes from here

1:05:29Yar Al Roshidi: Yeah, mean like having two perfect, having like let's say an AI podcast is two perfect. I don't know. I don't know if I can connect with that. Having something that is real, that is honest is like, okay, this is a person from certain parts of the world, in this case from Finland. It connects me more. It gives me more. Okay, I'm talking to someone from Finland. How cool is that? If I'm talking to an AI, you know, it's just like I'm talking to a machine. I don't know. It's two perfect. Everything's like top notch. I mean, it's like, I don't know.

1:05:59Janne Parri: Yeah, maybe we should do more like human things just to make it clear that we are not AI at some point when AI is getting better and it's very hard to distinguish if a video is AI generated, then we'll have to do all sorts of weird human things. And maybe we should swear more because AI doesn't usually swear and do all sorts of other things. So on. But okay. Yeah. Did you have anything to add about the AI?

1:06:31Yar Al Roshidi: No, mean, yeah, agree with you. Like, it's also, we don't know like how is this going to evolve, but yeah, I'm voting for humans. I'm on the human side on this.

1:06:43Janne Parri: Yeah, yeah, of course it's kind of like hard to think because well, I know that my retirement is quite far away and Yours is to you probably you at least look like a young guy so So the internet itself is not too old who Webflow turned I believe 10 a year back or something like that so in in 30 years when we might be still doing the work, what will the world look like then? And it's kind of like impossible to say. So it's kind of scary. Are we still doing like Webflow builds and just trying to do it faster or are we doing something completely different?

1:07:30Yar Al Roshidi: MCP will get better by then for sure. That will be more powerful. But

1:07:36Janne Parri: Hopefully.

1:07:37Yar Al Roshidi: Yeah, it is like, it's unpredictable at all, like especially with how fast things are going, how much things are happening. It's very unpredictable. The world is in a very fast pace right now. Things are, you know, super going on, like super fast, super unpredictable. But then again, is just like, this is how the ball rolls. Mean, we started with the internet, we saw things went on. Everyone was like, oh my God, this is gonna rule us. And then, you know, got more, I mean, more and more like the 2010, like to say the web 2.0 apps came in, these like Airbnb, these a lot of Uber apps, changed a lot of industries.

1:08:21Yar Al Roshidi: Got us more reliant on the technology. So we started, like I remember my parents used to like get really scared when I want to buy something online and I want to use my dad's credit card. And I was like, no way are you putting my credit card in the machine. And now it's like, it's saved, know, it's your Apple wallet. You just like click double clicks and just buy whatever you want. Yeah.

1:08:44Janne Parri: Was it like yesterday or day before that when OpenAI or ChatGPT came out with this shopping feature? So you can basically shop through the ChatGPT. So maybe.

1:09:00Yar Al Roshidi: I saw that one, yeah.

1:09:01Janne Parri: That's kind of wild,

1:09:03Yar Al Roshidi: I mean.

1:09:03Janne Parri: But of course it's the way it goes. Do you think that there is some sort of AI bubble going on? That we are too hyped about AI?

1:09:13Yar Al Roshidi: I think ⁓ so. There has been like very clear patterns of a [AI] bubble. The spending on AI has been massive, and yeah, think like AI is gonna, it's not gonna go away. AI is like the internet. It was like the internet bubble when the internet bubble happened. There was a lot of ambition and then it's just like, it was overdone. This time it's again looking ⁓ very similar. But I think, yeah, the AI is staying. It's just gonna be about how much more powerful it gets. And then.

1:09:46Yar Al Roshidi: It's going to be something that is going to be integrated everywhere. It's going to be within everything that we use instead of having like, let's say apps and certain stuff that gets us access to the AI. It's just going to be part of it. Like the internet. We all use the internet now. ⁓ We use things on top of the internet. And it's going to be like that. Of course, in a much bigger and a more complex scale, the AI is a technology that's way more advanced than the internet. But I think it's something like that. Yeah. It's a very interesting future, a very interesting time to be alive.

1:10:21Janne Parri: For example, the chap GPT-5 was quite a disappointment. It was a minor update. Everyone was waiting for something big. It might tell us that we have somehow reached the ceiling of LLMs in order to get like... To the next level we need something else, some sort of different technology or something. Yeah, something else. And if we do not find that, then all the hype is for nothing.

1:10:52Yar Al Roshidi: Yeah, but I also think there has been some restrictions on the advancement of AI. There's been a lot of problems going on and they wanted to make regulations and ways of how much this is advancing. Before it advances too much and they don't know what to do, they wanted to slow it down, let's say. Yeah, like I remember one, like the difference between Chad GPT-3, let's say, and Chad GPT-4 was huge and were all like, wow, this is like a huge difference. But then Chad GPT-5 came and I felt like watching an Apple keynote, you know, when you

1:11:27Janne Parri: You

1:11:27Yar Al Roshidi: Get like the iPhone 12 and iPhone 13, it's like changed from like aluminum to like titanium or something like that. So was like a very minor update. And like Sam came all in like a... Felt like Steve Jobs, watching Steve Jobs give a keynote. But yeah, Chad GPT-5 was, like, compared to the, again, compared to like three to four to five was not that huge.

1:11:53Janne Parri: That is true.

1:11:54Yar Al Roshidi: And I think the regulations hold them back, like the new regulations, the new systems, whatever is going on there in Silicon Valley is holding them back. Bye, let's see.

1:12:03Janne Parri: Yeah. Okay. We have talked so much about AI. I kind of have to ask you like what tools do you use and what subscriptions do you have? You mentioned Cursor a couple of times. So do you have all the subscriptions and use all of them or do you double down on some of them?

1:12:21Yar Al Roshidi: Yeah, I pay a lot to Cursor, that's for sure. Because I use the Pro plan and the Pro Plus plan. And I sometimes use these max modes where you just put your API key. And lately as well, I've been using Claude Code. It's ⁓ quite nice Claude Code. You can have it in the terminal. And I sometimes use it with Cursor. So I pay for that subscription as well. ⁓ I don't use Claude itself much, but I use Claude Code a lot. Yeah, so these two tools. And of course, ChatGPT, ⁓ I have the regular plan just to get it, ⁓ to get with the new features, to get chats basically. Like you get a new ⁓ update, new talks, you have a question, you have something that you wanna have a small use case, I would use ChatGPT.

1:13:09Yar Al Roshidi: Also, ⁓ Perplexity. So I get perplexity, which is a great search AI. They're adding a lot of nice features to it. I get Perplexity pro with Revolut. So I just go opted for that and I have that subscription going on as well. What else ⁓ do I use? ⁓ Lovable?

1:13:29Janne Parri: What about Gemini? Cool.

1:13:32Yar Al Roshidi: Gemini. Actually, Gemini. I've recently signed up to it for the storage space mainly because it gives you like you pay the same amount that you would pay let's say ChatGPT and it's like 20-25 bucks and then you get this 2 terabyte storage. You get access to all their AI tools and yeah so I signed up for that recently I am ⁓ not using it much to be honest but the Nano Banana feature is mainly what I go for that's really cool to make those images.

1:14:02Yar Al Roshidi: But yeah, the chat itself, I don't know. I got used to ChatGPT, I guess, so I just used that one. Yeah.

1:14:11Janne Parri: Yeah, it is kind of like... Should I say like most mature, the best general, if you just want to talk to an AI that is that has like the best apps and best features. So I kind of, I am always looking for some more specific AI's or AI's for specific use case, but I always come back to ChatGPT because it's just regularly the best for conversation and those things.

1:14:41Yar Al Roshidi: Actually, you should try Sesame. I mentioned it a while back. But it's a really, really good conversational AI. It's still like a research project. You can have a preview of it, and you can chat with it. And the way it talks, it's a human. It's like a human. It sighs. It laughs. It has poses. It's wow. Mean, the technology there, it's very impressive. Yeah, this is one of the tools that really impressed me. Yeah.

1:15:08Janne Parri: I definitely have to try that out because I usually, I usually like to talk to the AI and even sometimes when I'm out with our dog, instead of listening to a podcast, I just chat with the AI. So have a kind of something like a coaching call or something like that. So yeah, that is a good tip. Okay, Yar. We have one thing to go through in this episode. I'm not sure if you have watched my previous episodes till the end. There's one weird Finnish thing at the end of every episode. And it is this thing where I say a Finnish saying or an idiom. I translate it to English word for word.

1:15:57Janne Parri: And your job is to know or guess what that saying means. Is that clear?

1:16:04Yar Al Roshidi: It's clear and you got me I'm guilty I did not get to this part

1:16:08Janne Parri: Yeah. And this is, this is just good because it's a, it's a surprise. And these are usually quite funny ones, to give you a, some sort of score. There has been only one person that has guessed they're saying, right. So no pressure. And you're saying how I'll say this firstly in Finnish is... and word for word in English it is we're not sitting on a rabbit's back.

1:16:47Yar Al Roshidi: Hmm.

1:16:48Janne Parri: So what does it mean when I say to you that we're not sitting on a rabbit's back?

1:16:52Yar Al Roshidi: Definitely has to do with life moving fast, the fast movement that we maybe were not catching up to the fast movement of life. Something like that. It's interesting.

1:17:04Janne Parri: Yeah, yeah, to be honest, sometimes I just realize how weird like Finnish language is. Probably there's a lot of this in every language, but you are kind of kind of close. So it means that we are not in a hurry. So we are not sitting on a rabbit's back. So we're not in a hurry. Next time, next time you say to your coworker that we do not have to hurry, just say that we're not sitting. It wrap its back and see the face that he or she makes.

1:17:34Yar Al Roshidi: I'm definitely going to use that. It's very nice. You for sharing this with me. I have now some finished saying to share with people. It's very nice.

1:17:44Janne Parri: Yeah, yeah, I can send you some more but let's start with the first one. Okay, yar if someone wants to know more of you and maybe watch your youtube videos and maybe connect with you, where should they go?

1:17:59Yar Al Roshidi: So I'm on LinkedIn. You can find me, Yar Al-Rushidi, my name, or Yar Webflow. I think if you write Yar Webflow on, let's say, YouTube, you can find my channel. You can find me on LinkedIn. I'm on X, not as much, just to not get distracted. But yeah, I'm on this three platform. So just hit me up, Yar Webflow, Yar Al-Rushidi, and I'll be happy to talk to you. To collaborate, to just chat.

1:18:26Janne Parri: Yeah, yeah. And I'll put all the relevant links in the description also, the no

1:18:32Yar Al Roshidi: Thank you.

1:18:33Janne Parri: Code link and clean styles and are there any other relevant things that we mentioned? A bunch of AI tools, but regarding to you.

1:18:41Yar Al Roshidi: Yeah, clean Styles. I would love to hear more feedback from people about clean Styles. I am very proud of it.

1:18:49Janne Parri: Okay, that's about it. Thank you so much, Yar, and we'll see everybody in the next episode. Bye.

1:18:58Yar Al Roshidi: Bye